B5 telepathy and targeting beyond close range

Perturbatio

Mongoose
I posted this on the rulesmasters forum, but it looks like no-one wants to reply there (please see original post here: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4147)

I was wondering how other GMs handle it?
 

El Cid

Mongoose
It is my understanding that if you can't see your target, you can't read their minds.

I believe there is a feat that allows a teep to affect through wall but I don't have my book here.

Sidney
 

Perturbatio

Mongoose
It is my understanding that if you can't see your target, you can't read their minds.

I believe there is a feat that allows a teep to affect through wall but I don't have my book here.

Sidney

If you can't affect them beyond LOS what would be the point in ranges beyond LOS?
 

crizh

Mongoose
Perturbatio said:
If you can't affect them beyond LOS what would be the point in ranges beyond LOS?

Or for that matter the ranges that are shorter than LOS.

I believe Surface Scan is Line of Sight (P9 Close).

Or something pretty similar...
 

El Cid

Mongoose
Perturbatio said:
It is my understanding that if you can't see your target, you can't read their minds.

I believe there is a feat that allows a teep to affect through wall but I don't have my book here.

Sidney

If you can't affect them beyond LOS what would be the point in ranges beyond LOS?

Huh????????

Sidney
 

Perturbatio

Mongoose
LOS = Line of Sight

The B5 system (I'm assuming you have read it), has telepathic abilities that have a range beyond LOS, thus suggesting that you DON'T have to see your target to necessarily affect them.
 

El Cid

Mongoose
Perturbatio said:
LOS = Line of Sight

The B5 system (I'm assuming you have read it), has telepathic abilities that have a range beyond LOS, thus suggesting that you DON'T have to see your target to necessarily affect them.

I understand LOS. What I didn't understand and still don't is your response to my statement.

I will need to check the "beyond LOS" refference in the book.

Sidney
 

crizh

Mongoose
OK

There are five different range types for Telepathic Abilities.

Touch
Line of Sight
Close
Medium
Long

The last three are explicitly useable without line of sight. The rulebook states that they are not blocked by solid objects although a thin layer of lead does block them. We assume anything denser than lead will be sufficient also.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
In Strange Relations, all of the Colony Telepaths get agitated. Byron tells Lyta to let down the shields that the mundanes cause them to put up. She then realizes that Psi Corps Bloodhounds are arriving on the station.

According to the episode Objects at Rest Sheridan says to Delenn that the station is over 5 Miles long. That would put Down Below about 2 miles from where passengers arrive at B5. The Telepaths could detect the Bloodhounds from that distance, or the Bloodhounds were broadcasting on a level that only Telepaths could detect that they were on the station. They could have been broadcasting because they know that when people are afraid, they do stupid things. The equivalent of a dog herding sheep.

I KNOW that 2 miles away is out of LOS.

I KNOW that there is a lot of metal in between the two.

There are plenty of instances where direct Line of Sight is not available. When the Telepaths are holed up and they are messing with the mind of the welders to keep everyone out. Bester comes up, quits the welder and blocks the Telepaths on the other side of the wall.

Later Bester projects to Byron using Reality Fabrication which is an LOS power. He doesn't just "talk" to Byron telepathically, he projects an image of himself to Byron, through a lot of metal and distance.

The LOS is a crutch that the weaker Telepaths have until they are shown otherwise. In Dust To Dust the female Psi Cop (played by Judy Levitt, who is also Walter's wife) said at the end of the episode that she had been attempting to Send to Bester since they came through the Jump Gate. Bester was on the sleepers (which were only good for about 4 hours, which is strange since the Psi Corps only administered it once a week to telepaths that did not want to be part of the Corps) and said that he was unable to receive her sendings. This implies that stonger telepaths can send to each other over great distances without LOS to each other. To use Communication with a mundane perhaps a telepath needs to have LOS such as in Mindwar when Bester was talking to the Security Guard and to Sinclair...unless you have the power level Lyta has. She was able to send a message to Captain Lochley even though there was no LOS and a lot of metal in between. In The Hour of the Wolf, Lyta attempts to contact Sheridan even though she does not see him. The Whitestar is several thousand Km from Z'ha'dum, and she was able to broadcast to the planet's surface.

There are several crutches the the Psi Corps perpetuates besides LOS. Deep Scans always cause pain. Talia was sure that Bester was using it on her after the Telepath Underground Railroad was destroyed. However she did not look like she was in pain when he left. Sheridan assumed that the Rogue Telepaths from the colony were only scanning surface thoughts. Byron knew otherwise as he sent powerful telepaths to scan. The Centauri telepath that brought back Brother Edward's former past crimes back by doing a Deep Scan, then nudging the memories back to the surface. Lyta was also able to Deep Scan the Centauri telepath without causing pain either. When Lyta did a Deep Scan on Garibaldi to determine the truth about Bester controlling him, there was a headache (and the realization that he needed to add more fiber to his diet), however she also had to cut through "Level 12 blocks" that she noted that only a Psi Cop could get through.

Bottom line, the rules for Telepaths need to be re-written. I am looking forward to the new Pocket Players guide since it should have some of the mistakes fixed. I am sure that not enough will change to fix the whole system, but I am optimistic enough to have it on Pre-order at my local gaming store. Maybe the distances will change to Meters (which the rest of the game is based on), which would make a Telepath 3 times as powerful.

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/eplist.html
 

skalvar

Mongoose
There's some great stuff in Psi Corps.

The problem with telepathic range is that it seems to vary (and vary quite a lot) depending on:

Training
Personality
Specific talent
Familarity with your target and/or his mental pattern
The P level of your target
Your P level

Psychic communication/manipulation with mundanes seems to have a variety of limits, including a need for line of sight. I say seems; there are a few occasions when Bester gives us the impression he might not have the same limits.

Connections between two telepaths can go for miles. Similarly, abilities we might assume are telepathy (Delenn's connection with Sheridan, Sheridan's connection with Kosh) can work over distances of light-years. That implies, but does not state outright, that telepathy as engineered by the Vorlons might have something to do with the evolution of intelligence from a 'normal' state into the state of being of a First One; but that the limits placed on that engineered ability may well be unnatural. Ironheart is an example of what happens when an engineered human steps outside those boundaries; Sherdian an example of a more natural progression towards the same goal.

That's what I see, anyway. :) Good luck finding a definite answer though. Telepathic range, like everything else in the show, bows to the power of the plot.

Shannon
 

Barbara

Mongoose
My character started as a latent telepath.(Don't ask about the method of changing) Now a full telepath, she is developing a mindlink with her teacher/protector/adopted father. How far can she use Communicate and Warning with him.
 

frobisher

Mongoose
Anonymous said:
In Strange Relations, all of the Colony Telepaths get agitated. Byron tells Lyta to let down the shields that the mundanes cause them to put up. She then realizes that Psi Corps Bloodhounds are arriving on the station.

According to the episode Objects at Rest Sheridan says to Delenn that the station is over 5 Miles long. That would put Down Below about 2 miles from where passengers arrive at B5. The Telepaths could detect the Bloodhounds from that distance, or the Bloodhounds were broadcasting on a level that only Telepaths could detect that they were on the station. They could have been broadcasting because they know that when people are afraid, they do stupid things. The equivalent of a dog herding sheep.

I KNOW that 2 miles away is out of LOS.

I KNOW that there is a lot of metal in between the two.

The "Combined Scan" telepthic ability listed on Pg75 of the Psi Corps book neatly covers this... The LOS restriction is relaxed, plus ranges get greatly extended for the pack of Bloodhounds




There are plenty of instances where direct Line of Sight is not available. When the Telepaths are holed up and they are messing with the mind of the welders to keep everyone out. Bester comes up, quits the welder and blocks the Telepaths on the other side of the wall.

Later Bester projects to Byron using Reality Fabrication which is an LOS power. He doesn't just "talk" to Byron telepathically, he projects an image of himself to Byron, through a lot of metal and distance.

The LOS is a crutch that the weaker Telepaths have until they are shown otherwise. In Dust To Dust the female Psi Cop (played by Judy Levitt, who is also Walter's wife) said at the end of the episode that she had been attempting to Send to Bester since they came through the Jump Gate. Bester was on the sleepers (which were only good for about 4 hours, which is strange since the Psi Corps only administered it once a week to telepaths that did not want to be part of the Corps) and said that he was unable to receive her sendings. This implies that stonger telepaths can send to each other over great distances without LOS to each other. To use Communication with a mundane perhaps a telepath needs to have LOS such as in Mindwar when Bester was talking to the Security Guard and to Sinclair...unless you have the power level Lyta has. She was able to send a message to Captain Lochley even though there was no LOS and a lot of metal in between. In The Hour of the Wolf, Lyta attempts to contact Sheridan even though she does not see him. The Whitestar is several thousand Km from Z'ha'dum, and she was able to broadcast to the planet's surface.

Anonymous said:
There are several crutches the the Psi Corps perpetuates besides LOS. Deep Scans always cause pain. Talia was sure that Bester was using it on her after the Telepath Underground Railroad was destroyed. However she did not look like she was in pain when he left. Sheridan assumed that the Rogue Telepaths from the colony were only scanning surface thoughts. Byron knew otherwise as he sent powerful telepaths to scan.

Pg88, "Skim Scan" - basically a targetted quick fire deepscan that doesn't cause subdually damage :) LOS for a P12

Anonymous said:
The Centauri telepath that brought back Brother Edward's former past crimes back by doing a Deep Scan, then nudging the memories back to the surface. Lyta was also able to Deep Scan the Centauri telepath without causing pain either.

In the former case, I'd say not a Deep Scan, but a whole combination of things. Just because someone calls it a deep scan in the series doesn't mean that's what the games mechanic is. In the later case, I think there was discomfort, he was just too scared to scream like a little girl...
 

crizh

Mongoose
wanna put up a list of all the new Telepathic Abilities that anyone can learn?

Looks like we will have to wait until '05 to see Psi Corps in the shops.

How many here would buy the supplement whether it had a defective cover or not?

I sure would...
 

lastbesthope

Mongoose
crizh said:
wanna put up a list of all the new Telepathic Abilities that anyone can learn?

Looks like we will have to wait until '05 to see Psi Corps in the shops.

How many here would buy the supplement whether it had a defective cover or not?

I sure would...

Depending on the delay, I would and then I'd buy a 'good' one as well.

But hey, that's just me!

LBH
 

redlaco

Mongoose
crizh said:
Looks like we will have to wait until '05 to see Psi Corps in the shops.

How many here would buy the supplement whether it had a defective cover or not?

I sure would...
I had one of those babies in my own hands last week at my really friendly local game store. Yep, it felt mighty good... But since I already ordered it online somewhere else, I put it back on the shelf and bought "Zocalo" instead. BTW, the cover looked fine to me; I guess it was from a good batch.
 

scottmage

Mongoose
WOO HOO :!: :!: :!:

Sounds like a must have book...now if my *&%^$ gaming store will order it...I may just buy it directly from Mongoose (so much for supporting my local gaming store, but I don't want to wait 3 or 4 more months to get it).
 

scottmage

Mongoose
skalvar said:
Connections between two telepaths can go for miles. Similarly, abilities we might assume are telepathy (Delenn's connection with Sheridan, Sheridan's connection with Kosh) can work over distances of light-years.

Let's not forget the Centari Imperial Telepaths that can communicate back to Centari Prime (did you notice that they disappeared before Cartagia took the throne, or gulp...maybe after?) over light-years.
 

Barbara

Mongoose
Yes, both are telepaths mines P8 , his P14 (minbari). Miles would be useful, we have short range communicators but the station is longer than their range.
In answer to the obvious question - communicators require no skill roll and don't tire you .
 
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