ATM C POP A = resort planet ?

[BP]

Well put, rinku - my sentiments exactly.

Not only would defining atmo based on typical mainstream 'theories' be boring - it is guaranteed to be incorrect as well. Granted, to some it might be more 'believable', but that is a matter of opinion based on theories that have been consistently proven wrong or inadequate. As I mentioned earlier, a great many assumptions on what our own system's atmos are have been overturned by space probes... and then overturned again by later probes.

Someone with a good scientific bend will be able to 'rationalize' such 'irregularities' in a fictional setting. Furthermore, such can provide interesting plot fodder...

Consider, despite our modern (and ancient) knowledge of natural disasters like earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, monsoon floods, etc. - mankind's largest population centers are invariably located were such are 'eminent'.

So inhabited systems with eminent pre-nova stars, or inhabited planets with 'rapidly' decaying atmos are really no stretch at all...

 

[kristof65]

...all of which pretty much means that 2d6+Size-7 is as good a way of generating atmospheres as any other

yup - unless you or one of your players are a planetologist or you're publishing material for profit, why worry about it beyond that?

 

[BP]

Wouldn't even care then... (and why should a publisher care?)

(And you left out the players who are gravity and jump experts ... )

Traveller is hardly realistic in most areas - don't recall any notice that it was meant to be. The primary goal of entertainment is neither to inform nor to educate, and certainly not to simulate reality.

In the end, Traveller is just a game.

(ducks and runs...)

 

[rinku]

One thing that the standard Trav UWP system does (IMHO) fall down on a bit is the planet size. Even before the recent era of discovering big exoplanets, capping the size at 16,000km diameter seemed a little conservative. We also have NO idea what a typical "terrestrial" planet masses out there in the galaxy - Earth may be a mighty giant (with its freakishly oversized moon), or a puny middleweight.

Now, it's FAR too late to start mucking around with the formulas for established sectors in the 3rd Imperium, but Referees doing other settings, or looking to throw in a weird planet might well want to consider bigger balls. You could generate size on 3d6-5, for example, which would make Terra an average size planet, and allow up to size D.

 

[far-trader]

One thing that the standard Trav UWP system does (IMHO) fall down on a bit is the planet size...

Just the one thing

I haven't really read the whole MGT Core book (skimmed most of it) so maybe it touched on this just as CT did. LBB3 mentioned the standard was for a solid world of Earth density, though of different sizes, so graphing local gravity was easy (and there was a table), suggesting variants were possible. Like a higher density and higher gravity for any size, or without too much stretching of the imagination, lower density and larger size to keep the same gravity. It then went on to specifically mention very rare alternatives for referee fiat: Rosettes, Ringworlds, and Sphereworlds.

The thing is, at least how I've always interpreted it, the Main World generation rules are for the "best" world to settle in the system. Of course defining "best" is itself vague, but basically if the Main World is a hellhole it's because there are no nicer places in the system. Not because everyone ignored the Garden World just an orbit over.

High G worlds would be less desirable for a number of reasons, at least in CT. Also note the average world size is a 5 with 0.625Gees. I always took this as an indicator of the "homeworld" of the (as they would come to be known) Viliani being that size and them being adapted to the lower Gees. Just for some colour early in my games.

One thing that bugged me about UWP generation right from CT LBB3 was "planet size digit is the diameter of the world in thousands of miles... " WTH?! MILES!? Where did the metrics go?? For this one instance, they goofed. Big time in my opinion. What a non-sequitur. Especially when jump requires travelling in world diameters and is done in Kilometers. No idea if MGT "fixed" this, nor exactly how they could, though I suspect it wouldn't have been allowed even if they did come up with an idea. I toyed with a fix myself with a different world size generation rule/table to make it metric. To keep it close to the original and simple I just made it "planet size digit is the radius of the world in thousands of kilometers... " So to get the diameter (for jump distances) just double the size code x 1000km:

    Main World Sizes (Roll 2D6-2)

 Digit  Diameter  (Old Digit)   G Std

   0      Belt       0.00       0.000
   1     2000km      1.25       0.15625
   2     4000km      2.50       0.3125
   3     6000km      3.75       0.46875
   4     8000km      5.00       0.625
   5    10000km      6.25       0.78125
   6    12000km      7.50       0.9375
   7    14000km      8.75       1.09375
   8    16000km     10.00       1.250
   9    18000km     11.25       1.40625
   A    20000km     12.50       1.5625

Doesn't change things too much even if you just substitute the old generated UWPs for the new definition. Fits better being metric. Does allow some slightly larger worlds and heavier gravity but nothing crazy. Naturally the Gees are for standard density and could be (should be imo) fudged up or down as desired.

World Size should also be treated as a first order estimate imo, and like Population was later given a defining decimal digit so too should World Size imo. So you'd have a UWP Size of 3 with a decimal of say 6 giving a world size of 3.6 for more variation and interest.

Just thought I'd toss my old ideas in the mix as it came up

 

[AndrewW]

High G worlds would be less desirable for a number of reasons, at least in CT. Also note the average world size is a 5 with 0.625Gees. I always took this as an indicator of the "homeworld" of the (as they would come to be known) Viliani being that size and them being adapted to the lower Gees. Just for some colour early in my games.

High G is rather relative, that 0.625G would be rather high to a Darrian for example.

 

[BP]

... Where did the metrics go?? ...No idea if MGT "fixed" this, nor exactly how they could, ... So to get the diameter (for jump distances) just double the size code x 1000km:

Later LBB3 reprints corrected this using the simple 1 mi = 1.6 km conversion. MGT dropped the miles. [See pg 170]

LBB3 pointed out that world characteristics were just guidelines. Folks keep wanting it to be Science and 'realistic' - in an area where the science is almost entirely conjecture - and changes almost every year with new probe data, observations or theory! Not that I don't love them (and 'accuracy' in my Science Fiction), but fields of study like planetology, cosmology and, especially, exobiology are still virtually in their infancy. It is not totally unusual for fiction to become science (and vice-versa ) in these domains...

 

[far-trader]

... Where did the metrics go?? ...No idea if MGT "fixed" this, nor exactly how they could, ... So to get the diameter (for jump distances) just double the size code x 1000km:

Later LBB3 reprints corrected this using the simple 1 mi = 1.6 km conversion. MGT dropped the miles. [See pg 170]

Thanks for the page number BP, and bless Mongoose for dropping the miles reference It's still a clumsy mechanic imo though and...

...from that page, "Size measures a world’s diameter in thousands of kilometres." doesn't quite ring right to me. Because it's not. I get the idea they were trying, hoping to, "fix" it from that though.

LBB3 pointed out that world characteristics were just guidelines. Folks keep wanting it to be Science and 'realistic' - in an area where the science is almost entirely conjecture - and changes almost every year with new probe data, observations or theory! Not that I don't love them (and 'accuracy' in my Science Fiction), but fields of study like planetology, cosmology and, especially, exobiology are still virtually in their infancy. It is not totally unusual for fiction to become science (and vice-versa ) in these domains...

QFT

With the additional that Main World generation isn't the total of worlds in a system, just the "best" one for whatever reasons one wants to make up. There may well be a giant world in the system in addition to the Main World, but it won't be as pleasant in one or several ways.

 

[rinku]

One thing that bugged me about UWP generation right from CT LBB3 was "planet size digit is the diameter of the world in thousands of miles... " WTH?! MILES!? Where did the metrics go??

That's from the very first edition of 1977. Most likely an artifact of whatever physics textbooks that Marc Miller had access to in the mid-seventies (no internet, remember!), or because they expected most players to only have inch rulers. All of the space combat measurements were expressed in scale inches. It was 1000 miles per inch, IIRC.

The 1981 edition did convert it all to metric, but it would have been awkward to redo the established planet size codes, so they became 1600km per instead of 1000 miles per.

I LIKE your 1000km radius idea. That's definitely one to remember!