Arachnid Queen - How Big?

[Gauntlet-]

We Know the following as it is the same in both MGP arachnid army book and CGI and if those 2 match up then it should by rights trump the novel/movie

Breeder Bugs- Do lay eggs, and nothing else.

Nurser Bugs- Utilize genetic code gathered from various species and begin mixing it for new subspecies, notably this bug defines eggs as warrior/hopper/etc.

Now- the inconsistency

What is the original arachnid bug? IMO its the Queen, Galatea thinks its the Breeder Bug, I think the less specific Queen makes sense, since the original arachnid would be less super specified then any manufactured subspecies... and I think it less likely that a Subspecies would be ruling over the swarm as opposed to the original creator... the name breeder bug suggests but one specific purpose, whereas Queen suggests several.

We do know the queen commands everyone, but the CGI has it laying eggs, and MGP is silent about the issue... (i wonder if any scenario exists with the queen it may mention it) Notably we know that the Breeder Bug is considered expendable, as it can be put on overdrive and produce up to 48 eggs a day MAX and die within a month. Whereas the Queens are protected at all costs... from a survival issue, I think that supports the queen as a breeder, as there are plenty of brains to back up command if she goes, and many colonies have no queens... whereas breeders are very neccessary....

Since breeders only produce 12 eggs a day naturally, I dont think that they produce the majority for larger colonies, I think they are used for small colonies, and queens are used in the extreme depths of large colonies to produce the staggering figure of 180,000 eggs per day (CGI quote)

We also have a few Miscellaneous species... the long legged spider bugs from Klendathu CGI- I believe they mentioned that the spiders were used to suck blood from captured humans and inject it into eggs, to create infiltrators... So I view them as a enhanced Breeder bug, perhaps more sophisticated in genetic manipulation.

Rippler Mom- CGI, a massive egg laying rippler, as there was little area for breeder bugs, the fact that we have another queenish bug suggests that the arachnids prefer large central egg laying creatures... or at least that they enjoy having such things around.


It would be a cool project to map and build an entire miniature arachnid hive, and have various worker bugs all over...

 

[roughneck GIR]

it was never mentoined that it lays any eggs.
I imagine a queen as a Super-Brain and Brains do not lay eggs.

The cgi says otherwise. I, if I ever make a plan for a queen would base mine on the cgi queen and maybe include an mi "doll" that it is carrying around with it . Maybe some plasma and tanker, maybe even some tyranid bits

 

[Poko]

on the queen topic- it may have been, that the Queens were also the breeders in the past of the bug species, but as the complexity and number of the bugs rose, they may have relegated that to the breeders, and concentrate more on commanding the entire swarm.i guess that the queens could indeed act as breeders, but either when the colony is new, and needs a quick rise of numbers, or in case of a real emergency*like having MI on your planet*. in normal situation, i'd guess that the breeders(large numbers obviously)were the main source of new bugs.

but i may be very well wrong,it's just a random thought :wink:

 

[Hiromoon]

Actually I'm more inclide to think that the Arachnid species on a whole is the result of some fancy gene splicing by a race that lost control of its creation...

 

[JoseDominguez]

I don't think you can overanalyze this, SST is the culmination of three different backgrounds (book, CGI and Film) so without a single mind coming up with the background, it's going to be inconsistent. It's going to make as much sense as the most recent aliens books that have tried to backtrack and tie the novels in with the film...... problem being that the original alien and pred films were totally separate. Inconsistencies arise and you just have to ignore them and enjoy.

 

[Galatea]

Actually I'm more inclide to think that the Arachnid species on a whole is the result of some fancy gene splicing by a race that lost control of its creation...

Zerg, anyone?

 

[Hiromoon]

Possibly. There wouldn't be much of a stretch to go the Zerg route, or even say they were inspired by the bugs in the book.

Effectively, if we concider the sources we have as of this moment, we can draw a few conciderations:

A> Thier technology is Genetic manipulation.
B> They have a society structure based similar to, say, army ants
C> They need resources, so they must expand or die

 

[BuShips]

Actually I'm more inclide to think that the Arachnid species on a whole is the result of some fancy gene splicing by a race that lost control of its creation...

Zerg, anyone?

Or a biological version of Fred Saberhagen's machine Berzerkers?

This has indeed been an interesting thread to read. It's becoming a "chicken or the egg" discussion, but that's OK too. To solve various inconsistencies, why can't some Bug colonies have egg-laying Queens and others that have split the duties of the Queen and "delegated" some of her duties off onto the other sub-species? Since DNA manipulation was brought into the mix in the CGI series, this becomes a viable explanation for the clashes within the sources. For the original book fans (Scipio?) the Queen would be the egg-laying factory described therein and might look much like the Alien's movie beastie. After all, part of the heritage of Aliens was taken from Heinlein's SST novel, wasn't it? In that mode then, you could have just an overly-large "big fat smart bug" and he'd be a "King Brain", for us Patriarch gamers :wink: .

 

[Gauntlet-]

Well, there are a couple of differences between say the zerg and the arachnids, or other 'hive' species

the big one is the level of sophisitication with genetic manipulation, and I hope SST doesnt Zerg our or Tyranid out the Arachnids, keep their manipulation basic and it is far more believable and hard SF...

the other big difference is mentality, with the zerg and tyranids their minions are LITERALLY controlled by higher caste bugs, the command bugs litterally direct movements through telepathic commands, their brains are like radio recievers, and their senses are sensors for the Overmind

That makes them a society of One. Which is really not a society as much as it is a very cold and convoluted individual.

Whereas the bugs have a real society, Brains and Queens lack personallity but they are seperate sentenient beings, they even have some feelings (like fear)

Warrior Bugs and such actually are ordered commands but see and feel on their own. they make their own decisions based on what they observe, they are allowed to make judgement calls, their is a heirarchy in place... you can see it in action during the movie or CGI when the Warriors 'sing' praise for their brain bug... they are totally interdependent and obedient to each other, brain bugs dont rebel for example.... but their is no true overmind, they are not a single mind, but they share the exact same motivation....

This is a stregnth actually... as you could kill the Over mind and the Zerg will immediately feel this across space, and they will recover over time, a decent ammount of time actually... whereas the bugs are only stalled by the death of a queen for a few moments, 1 action to be precise... then everyone moves on and continues to make intelligent action.

Anywho- I prefer the bugs being a little more natural than the Zerg/Tyranids, I like the idea that the bugs have over millions of years simply evolved hoppers and tankers.... and that they really are not purposely genetically engineering themselves *this explanation fits with the book and the movie... but was a bad one for the movie all in all... I dont see nature planning on plasma bugs.... so yeah some intelligent design is neccessary... but going overboard would make me sad.

I hope the arachnids are not a experiment gone awry... weve seen that explanation too often, why not let them be their own Monster?

Remember the asteroid bug? well I always liked them because they offer a startling possibillity.... Klendathu isnt the Homeworld of All Bugs... its just their first colony in this sector of the galaxy... colonized by an asteroid bug a loooong time ago... and when we defeat them, well some year later we will run into another colony in another sector.... lol

 

[Hiromoon]

That you initially know of, Gauntlet. Remember the queens have the authority over the bain bugs.

It's more like they've been bred to obey, a genetic need to follow commands, and while according to the lore we have seen before us, they migh have individual senses, they don't seem to hesitate to sacrifice themselves as if they were mere tools.

 

[Kristovich]

The CGI states that the Queen lays eggs. And there's also some good shots of her in the same CGI.

 

[Galatea]

That you initially know of, Gauntlet. Remember the queens have the authority over the bain bugs.

It's more like they've been bred to obey, a genetic need to follow commands, and while according to the lore we have seen before us, they migh have individual senses, they don't seem to hesitate to sacrifice themselves as if they were mere tools.

Queens:

Okay, let's see it from another point.

Breeders are the initial arachnids, the most simplified form of arachnid species (though they have seen some change in their past as they now do no longer need to nurse their eggs or hunt food/care for the funghi gardens.

Queens are bred as factory bugs, producing am massive amount of eggs, breeders could never achieve. They are big and it's very expensive to create them so it must be defended.

And because they already have to be defend and have nothing to do except of laying eggs, why not use them as command centrals? Makes more sense than breed a new expensive bug for this task if you already have a really expensive bug in the heart of your colony. It's just a little investment to give it this ability.

So it all seems to make sense.


Arachnid Society:

Arachnid Warriors are individual beings although they will sacrifice themselves if necessary. This is because they have to.
They cannot reproduce themselves so they are totally dependent on their Breeders and Queens.
Ensuring the future existence of the own genes works different in arachnid society.

A Warrior Bug CAN save "his" unborn children by getting killed. A human cannot.
That is why they have no fear and no ego. Just like ants.

But Brains need feelings. Though they can't reproduce themselves, they have to be smart.
They need intuition, a sixth sense, a feeling how situations are going when they lack substantial information. They need to be able to imagine hypothetical situations, making big plans and all those things.
They need to know fear because they have to understand the fear of their enemies. And take advantage of this wisdom.

Of course they won't let themselves getting killed easily - they know of their own importance - but they will NOT save their own life at all cost. If they can rescue their colony by getting killed they will sacrifice themselves, because it doesn't make any sense to survive if you can't reproduce anyway.