Anti-Theists is Glorantha

[Michael Hopcroft]

I wonder if there is room in Glorantha for a character or group of characters who are opposed to gods; not denying they exist, but rather who fervently believe that gods, whatever their stripe, are arrogant busybodies who really need to stop sticking their noses in Man's affairs because Man can get along perfectly well without them.

Such persons obviously wouldn't use Divine Magic. But they could be Runecasters and, if such exist in Glorantha, sorcerers. However, they are more likely to rely on intelligence and their own strength than magical "cheats".

 

[atgxtg]

I wonder if there is room in Glorantha for a character or group of characters who are opposed to gods; not denying they exist, but rather who fervently believe that gods, whatever their stripe, are arrogant busybodies who really need to stop sticking their noses in Man's affairs because Man can get along perfectly well without them.

Such persons obviously wouldn't use Divine Magic. But they could be Runecasters and, if such exist in Glorantha, sorcerers. However, they are more likely to rely on intelligence and their own strength than magical "cheats".

Yes there is room, such people do exisist, but it is a dangerous exisistence. There are a couple of groups that do stuff like that. First are the saintly orders who pretty much believe in one god and that all the others are pretty much what you described. They are monotheists in a poltythesitic world. THey have a hericy of saints and use wizardry for magic.


Thn there is the No God Chrurch, who pretty much believe that anyone can do magic if they learn how. THey pretty much learn whatever magic they can and don't have an afterlife to worry about.

Next are the sorcerors. Sorcerors are those who uses sorcery outside of the confines of a churge or school (as opposed to wizards whgo use sorcery in the cofnies of a church) who use magic as they wish.

And then there are the illuminated. THese people have a strange outlook on life and can mix cults and faiths freely (if not openly)

THe GOd lerarns also overlap here some as well.


NOw since most of the people in Glorantha belong to a faith, someone who is actively working agianst any and all gods isvirtusally an enemy of every and all faiths, in a world where the idea of "freedom of religion" isn't in the vocabulary. Coming out and admidtting it is definately not a good way to introduce youself. It right up there with a Broo waling into the middle of town and asking people to send their daughters over for a Chaos festival and orgy.

Now a secret ogranization along the lines of the one from L5R might exist, but not openly-at least not in the areas where the theist hold sway.

 

[Dort Onion]

Didn't a 'Cult' of Atheists live on God Forgot Islands south of the Holy Country?

 

[simonh]

Such persons obviously wouldn't use Divine Magic. But they could be Runecasters and, if such exist in Glorantha, sorcerers. However, they are more likely to rely on intelligence and their own strength than magical "cheats".

I'm not sure what you mean by "cheats".

As has been aid there are groups in Glorantha with just about any concievable combination of beliefs. The situation is much like it was in the dark ages, with poor communications meaning that isolated communities would come up with their own answers to theological questions. The God Learner Empire's Return to Rightness crusade is an attempt to fix that.

If yuo want to include a group of your own dvising in your game, there's plenty of scope to do so.

Simon Hibbs

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

I'd also hazard a guess that Chaos and Dragons fit into the "anti-theist" bracket. Chaos in the literal sense of "anti", i.e. directly and openly opposed to the gods. Dragons would be more indifferent to the gods, seeing them as just another one of those little species that wander into their view every now and then.

 

[Rurik]

Zzabur and the inhabitants of Brithos are Atheists. He should be around during the time of the second age setting material.

The HeroWars Glorantha book says Atheist Sorcerors are still around in the late third age, most of them being the remaining Brithrini. The practice is called Zzaburism.

 

[Mark Mohrfield]

The inhabitants of the Elamle and Onlaks peninulas in Pamaltela are described as being suspicious of the supernatural, and consequently they deliberately worship weak deities.

 

[Rurik]

The inhabitants of the Elamle and Onlaks peninulas in Pamaltela are described as being suspicious of the supernatural, and consequently they deliberately worship weak deities.

Now that's my Idea of a good religeon.

"Aren't you afraid of angering the gods by your actions?"

"Naw. They're a bunch of pussy's. They give me any crap I'll just kick their asses." :lol:

 

[atgxtg]

Sounds like an AD&D group "going through" the Dieties & Demigods book.

"Let's whack Zeus! He's only got 156 hit points and AC -5."

 

[Rurik]

Sounds like an AD&D group "going through" the Dieties & Demigods book.

"Let's whack Zeus! He's only got 156 hit points and AC -5."

Isn't that basically what Orlanth did?

I think he was trying to get street cred. 8)

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Sounds like an AD&D group "going through" the Dieties & Demigods book.

"Let's whack Zeus! He's only got 156 hit points and AC -5."

Isn't that basically what Orlanth did?

I think he was trying to get street cred. 8)

Nah, he whacked Apollo. Serves him right for not taking the "Resistance to Weather (Storms)" Feat. :twisted:

 

[O Dinas Powys]

Didn't a 'Cult' of Atheists live on God Forgot Islands south of the Holy Country?

These are an enclave of the Brithini that Rurik mentions just down the thread.

Zzabur and the inhabitants of Brithos are Atheists. He should be around during the time of the second age setting material.

The HeroWars Glorantha book says Atheist Sorcerers are still around in the late third age, most of them being the remaining Brithrini. The practice is called Zzaburism.

To me it seems that their society is superficially similar to that of the Mostali: they are born into a cast and if they keep rigidly to its tenets and rituals then they are immortal.

To turn this back to the original question:

I wonder if there is room in Glorantha for a character or group of characters who are opposed to gods; not denying they exist, but rather who fervently believe that gods, whatever their stripe, are arrogant busybodies who really need to stop sticking their noses in Man's affairs because Man can get along perfectly well without them.

The Brithini certainly fit the bill, but are possibly limited (as written) as PCs because of their cast strictures. By the third age they are reclusive and focused on maintaining their purity and immortality.

(I've got the third age stuff in my head at the moment because I've just started a game (RQ2) with Refuge, the most northerly city of this colony, as it point of origin.)

They are probably much more active during the second age, especially as ISTR that Brithos sinks at the end of the age and Zzabur is blamed for the closing in some capacity!

Such persons obviously wouldn't use Divine Magic. But they could be Runecasters and, if such exist in Glorantha, sorcerers. However, they are more likely to rely on intelligence and their own strength than magical "cheats".

Runecasting might be viewed problematic because aren't the runes fragments of gods blood? Sorcery is probably a more appropriate choice as this is direct manipulation of the world by the force of one's own will.

 

[King Amenjar]

Didn't a 'Cult' of Atheists live on God Forgot Islands south of the Holy Country?

Yes - in the "Clanking City" mentioned in the RQ Sourcebook. The Mostali arranged for everyone to attack it.

 

[TRose]

I dont that there any real atheistist in Glorantha as we understand and use the term. I mean. going up to the Crimson Bat and telling him he does not exist would be a very short conversation. Most so call atheist believe from what I read, that the Gods are realling powerful spirits running a pyramid scheme. I mean The laity gives the Gods so much power on a regular basis and get what in Return? Atheist type in glorantha tend to be either Sorcerers or maybe illuminated in my opinion

 

[RMS]

I dont that there any real atheistist in Glorantha as we understand and use the term. I mean. going up to the Crimson Bat and telling him he does not exist would be a very short conversation. Most so call atheist believe from what I read, that the Gods are realling powerful spirits running a pyramid scheme. I mean The laity gives the Gods so much power on a regular basis and get what in Return? Atheist type in glorantha tend to be either Sorcerers or maybe illuminated in my opinion

Correct. There's nobody running around denying the existence of gods in Glorantha. The gods are too present and obvious for this to take place. Gloranthan atheists are atheists in the sense that they deny the complete divinity of most of the gods (all accept The Invisible God in most cases) and consider them to be great apothesized saints or great spirits but fully accept that they do have power of some sort and do exist at some level. There's no (or very little) denying the vary existence of the beings refered to be others as 'gods'.

 

[atgxtg]

I dont that there any real atheistist in Glorantha as we understand and use the term. I mean. going up to the Crimson Bat and telling him he does not exist would be a very short conversation. Most so call atheist believe from what I read, that the Gods are realling powerful spirits running a pyramid scheme. I mean The laity gives the Gods so much power on a regular basis and get what in Return? Atheist type in glorantha tend to be either Sorcerers or maybe illuminated in my opinion

Correct. There's nobody running around denying the existence of gods in Glorantha. The gods are too present and obvious for this to take place. Gloranthan atheists are atheists in the sense that they deny the complete divinity of most of the gods (all accept The Invisible God in most cases) and consider them to be great apothesized saints or great spirits but fully accept that they do have power of some sort and do exist at some level. There's no (or very little) denying the vary existence of the beings refered to be others as 'gods'.

Maybe there is. I'm thinking about a couple of the artivcles I read on the player cults and illusions, as well as a bit about the Illuminated. MAybe there is a buddist like group on Glorantha who believe the world and the gods are but an illusion. :idea:

 

[simonh]

Maybe there is. I'm thinking about a couple of the artivcles I read on the player cults and illusions, as well as a bit about the Illuminated. MAybe there is a buddist like group on Glorantha who believe the world and the gods are but an illusion. :idea:

There are mystics in the east that have beliefs analagous to budhism (but of course there are many different beliefs within budhism, and many different beliefs in the east of Glorantha so there's a lot more to it than that.)

There's an unfortunate missunderstanding about what budhists mean by illusion though. It doesn't mean they think the world doesn't exist. It means they think our preception of the world is not complete. A Gloranthan mystic would probably say that the gods are just as real as everything else in the world, and then smile enigmaticaly.

EDIT:

The eastern religion(s) generaly divide their pantheons into the gods and the antigods. Worship of the gods is considered proper because it is compatible with enlightenment and the gods can help their worshipers along the mystical path to transcend the world. The antigods are opposed to enlightenment, or at least are ignorant of it, and worshiping them mires the worshiper in the concerns of the world or worse, into annihilation. At least, that's what I remember from the sources, I'm no expert on this part of Glorantha.


Simon Hibbs