Another Rule question

[Larac]

Talking with folks at Mongoose the Rules sheets we have ARE the Core rules, not the Lite Version.

Many options will be in the book, but these are the Core, thus my questions to try and understand them as much as I can, for the demos comming up.

If it is a direct quote from the rules, I will mark in " ".

This came up when playing with civs today, but could happen in "normal" play as well.

S = Shooting Unit
T = Target Unit
O = Other
Fz = Fire Zone

S
S O
S O T
S S O O TFzT
S T

With what I have read so far, the Targets are Obscured.
in Shoot Actions
As " that is, terrain hides part of the Targe model"
and " However, models not in the same unit can block or obscure Line of Sight"

But it seems the Others, that are out of the Fz, would still be in great danger.

In some rules system shots would be allocated to the Others first (AT -43 for Example), with all direct firing weapons, I could see the GL's firing over, but not rifles or MGs.

If doing a hostage mission, it would not seem correct to let you just shoot through hostages without being a chance to hit them.

I was thinking if this is not covered in the Book in some way.


IDEA
For every model that is not in the shooting unit, or in the Fire Zone, but is obscuring the FZ, as per the drawing, will have dice allocated in the following manner.
All 1's for this issue become hits on the Others.

A Shooting Unit may just shoot with models that have non Obscured lines of fire, to do this the Shooting Unit removes 1 Die for each model Obscuring the Target, this shows the Shooting Unit taking only safe, clear shots this reduces the Firepower of the Shooting Unit but keeps it from hitting an Other.

This is not used if both the Targets and Others are foes of the Shooting Unit, it is not to allow you to hit two units far apart, it is used to discourage firing through crowds, your own troops, and hostages.

I think this gives enough disadvantage without bogging the game any, and would be used only when this type of 3rd party or perhaps out of desperation a Unit needs to fire through a Friendly Unit to stop a threat.


Of course if the Shoothing Unit is Elevated and is as high as or higher in size than the Others it should be a clear shot.


I am sure it could all be worded better, but I hope with the display and verbage the idea gets across.

Ignore, Improve or Discuss
Thanks
Lee

 

[Turtle]

You're talking about trying to understand the core rules, but already you want to modify it and add in non-combat units? Not a good idea.

Secondly, I don't know exactly what you're asking right now. You're not so much making a rules question as asking what people think of a new rule

For a demo scenario, don't use non-combatants. Just special rule them so that they cannot be allocated damage dice a firezone unless they are the only models in a firezone or are caught in the explosive splash of another weapon.

This way you don't have to change one of the core shooting rules for a demo, as that can confuse people. Not allowing civilian/hostages/noncombatants to get hit in a firezone when there are other combat units in the area means the shooting troops must clear out the place with regular shooting, but can't use explosives.

And finally you can clearly say that that special rule about the hostages is only for the scenario.

But frankly, for a demo I'd recommend more straight up fights for objectives. The whole hostage rescue thing is more for anti-terror units, not frontline fighting.

 

[Mr Evil]

fire zone covers this !

and if you plan to demo the game keep it simple, i demod the other night with a M1A1 V a challenger, and it totaly impressed all those that played.

 

[Mongoose Alex]

Mr Evil is right. The rules for fire zones cover this. If you are playing a mission where you're getting bonus points for keeping hostages alive, I suggest you engage the bad guys in close combat....

For demo games, you want to be able to get across how the game works to people playing and watching without adding house rules.

 

[Larac]

I have more than a few wargamers I am going to be showing this to, I'm trying to avoid

Well thats just silly!
remarks and a first impression that this is less than it should be.



Forget the civs, hostages and all that then.

The Others are a Unit of the Shooters side, they are out of the FZ, but in the direct line of fire, are they truly in no danger.

How does the FZ cover this already?


As for the suggestions, its how I was taught to look at problems, not just gripe but look for solutions that might fix or lead to a fix.


Not trying to cause issues but As I was told THESE are the rules, then should they not be a bullet proof (pardon the pun) as they can.


Lee

 

[Mongoose Alex]

1. If the friendly unit is far enough away to be out of the fire zone then they cannot be hit.

2. If the friendly unit really is in the way of the shooters, then you need to determine whether all of your shooters can see the target. Assuming they all can you will need to determine if the target is obscured and if so, apply the necessary modifier to the target score.

 

[Larac]

Yes all that is covered.

I hope the Advanced Rules have something more then, for this type of issue.

As I am the only one that seems to think that it is an issue, I'll say no more.

Lee