. . . . . and the years of the rise of the sons of Aryas.

[Erebus]

Hello all.

I have just finished reading the MRB and have one question, which I'm sure somebody can answer for me. Howards introduction to the Hyborian age, you know the "Know, O Prince, that between the years . . ." he states that the Hyborian age was from a time between when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas. Who were the sons of Aryas? In the MRB it pretty much says that the start of the fall of the Hyborian age was the Pictish invasion of Aquilonia, it never mentions these sons of Aryas. What am I missing?


P.S.

All the information I have read on this forum so far has been most helpfull preparing my campaign, thanks to all .

 

[Grim Wanderer]

The reference is probably from the Rig Veda, a sacred text and the oldest of the Hindu Rigs.

For some more, general information try the following site:

http://www.hindunet.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=15,44&Number=17707&Main=11880

Grim Wanderer

 

[Nilus]

My thought.

Sons of Aryas...I.E. would mean the Aryians. The Mythical white race that come out of india in supposed pre-history. These are the same guys that the Nazis tried to say that the master race was descended from, if I recall.

 

[S'mon]

My thought.

Sons of Aryas...I.E. would mean the Aryians. The Mythical white race that come out of india in supposed pre-history. These are the same guys that the Nazis tried to say that the master race was descended from, if I recall.

I thought the Aryans were the white race that conquered India and instituted the Caste system, with them on top as the priest & warrior castes? Then the Nazis used the term for Nordic types.

 

[DrSkull]

It is a fact that most of the languages of Europe and many of the languages of India plus Persian and a few others, are all descended from a common source language that was spoken about 3000 B.C. Modern linguists call this language "Proto-Indo-European", it is not recorded, but is reconstructable by examining early "daughter languages" such as Greek, Sanskrit, and Latin. All languages of this family are called "Indo-European languages."

Vedic Sanskrit is the oldest recorded Indo-European language (although you might argue that Linear B Greek is actually older). The writers of these texts were a more-or-less white race that invaded India and set up the Caste system as was noted. These folk called themselves Aryans.

In the early part of the 20th century it was customary to use this early Indian term "Aryan" to refer not just to the earliest Indian Indo-Eurpoean speaking people (c1400 BC), but also by transference to the original speakers of Proto-Indo-European (3000BC).

So, Howard's sons of Aryas are the fictional equivalent to the speakers of Proto-Indo-European and thus the founders of most of the European nationalities. In his ficitonal history, they would have been mostly Aesir in origin, but with significant Cimmerian and Vanir intermixture.

Nazi myth turned these Aryans into supermen who came from Germany. In truth they were ordinary men who probably came from southern Russia. I think their language became so widespread because they were among the first to capitalize on the use of horses.

A side note, the word Aryan is etymologically the same as the Latin word "alienus" (mordern Alien). What both words mean is "the others". In Sanskrit it has the sense "the others in my group", in Latin "folks from the other group"

 

[Yokiboy]

Wow, DrSkull is living up to the "Dr." in his nick. Nice background info, thanks for sharing. I wasn't familiar with all of this.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[Anonymous]

Aryans aren't white, that's a nazi myth. Aryans are Indian/Persian descent race, as mentioned before the progenitors of the Indo-European language groups. An "Aryan" looks more like your local Indian Restauranteer and not like your lantern jawed-blonde haired blue eyed ubermensch.

In fact, the afformentioned blonde hair, blue eyed fair skinned peoples are exactly the germanic barbarians that helped destroy the roman empire...certainly heroes to Howard, but also not 'aryans'.

 

[DrSkull]

It depends on your use of the word.

In the original Indian sense of the word, Aryans are the Indo-Persians and aren't very blonde or blue eyed today, obviously.

We don't know what they looked like in 1400 BC or thereabouts when they first arrived in India and Iran. But there's every reason to believe that they were whiter than they are now.

The confusion comes when you apply the word Aryan not just to the Indo-Persians of 1400 BC, but use it the way the Nazis and Robert E. Howard used it to refer to the Indo-Europeans of 3000 BC.

The speakers of Proto-Indo-European (Howard's Aryans) did not come FROM India, rather they went from Russia TO India, Europe, and interestingly enough to Chinese Turkistan. The Russian steppes are centrally located to all these places. Archeaologically these were the so-called Kurgan folk, who weren't Indic in appearance.

Recent archeology from Chinese Turkistan (where desert mummies have been uncovered) show that the Tocharians who spoke a recogizably Indo-European language were as white as white can be, some with red hair. They even wore Tartans and had giant, pointy witch hats for women who were presumably their witch women.

That the Indo-Europeans (whom Howard and the Nazis incorrectly termed Aryans, but it is they whom they met) were indeed white. They weren't pure blooded supermen from Atlantis, but they certainly were white folk. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

[Erebus]

Very cool . My knowledge of REH and Conan has grown a lot since I purchased the RPG and started frequenting this forum. Cheers to all of you.

 

[Lord Kjeran]

Chello!

In fact, the afformentioned blonde hair, blue eyed fair skinned peoples are exactly the germanic barbarians that helped destroy the roman empire...certainly heroes to Howard, but also not 'aryans'.

Indeed, to borrow a quote from my favorite US President:

"As for [the Japanese] having yellow skin, if we go back two thousand years we will find that to the Greek and the Roman the most dreaded and in a sense the most despised barbarian was the white-skinned, blue-eyed and red or yellow-haired barbarian of the North--the men from whom you and I in a large part derive our blood."
Theodore Roosevelt, June 19, 1905


And does it really matter who the sons of Ariyas were? Could be anybody...in my younger, uneducated days I thought that referred to the souns of ATREUS...Agamemnon and Meneleos from the Iliad!

lol

Tony

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, I think the reference is to the priest who attempted to teach Gorm and his fellow Picts the ways of civilization (as mentioned in the second half of the "Hyborian Age"). His name, as I recall, was Aryas, and thus the Picts that destroyed Hyborian civilization were known as the "Sons of Aryas." The time after the Pictish invasion in the west (and Hyrkanian invasion in the east) heralded the end of recorded history and the advent of a new dark age, which lifted only after the new cataclysm that destroyed the Thurian Continent, the creation of the continents of Europe and Africa as we know them, and the rise of the new civilizations descended from those of the lost Hyborian age.

Thus, the time from the sinking of Atlantis to the rise of the sons of Aryas refers to the Hyborian age exclusively, and does not include the time following the destruction of the Thurian continent.

Nice catch on the Tocharians, Dr. Skull. Info about them has been very, very slow to disseminate.

James Mishler

 

[Orkin]

A modern language that seems to have retained the most similalties to the original Indo-European tongue is Lithuanian. A good background book is In Search of the Indo-Europeans.

 

[DrSkull]

Actually, I think the reference is to the priest who attempted to teach Gorm and his fellow Picts the ways of civilization (as mentioned in the second half of the "Hyborian Age"). His name, as I recall, was Aryas, and thus the Picts that destroyed Hyborian civilization were known as the "Sons of Aryas." Thus, the time from the sinking of Atlantis to the rise of the sons of Aryas refers to the Hyborian age exclusively, and does not include the time following the destruction of the Thurian continent.


James Mishler

I thought that too, but the priest's name is Arius or Arus, I think it's been spelled both ways, but not Aryas. Of course out loud, to the ears of an English speaker, Aryas and Arius sound the same.

 

[Mythos]

http://www.dalitstan.org/books/menace/menace2.html

Check it out.

 

[Orkin]

Such a gathering of erudite philologists!

Can't resist wondering if anyone is interested in organizing to develop (or "rediscover") languages of the Hyborian Age?

Realistically, we can expect Conan to begin speaking Cimmerian sooner or later, and Aquilonian etc. The worst I can imagine is if modern (or at least historically well-known) languages were spliced in instead of developing realistic (and reasonably simple) pre-historic tongues.

Anyone for this?

 

[Grim Wanderer]

Sounds like fun.

But how would you go about teaching Cimmerian (everybody's obvious first choice), since as far as I can recall, Cimmerians had no written language, it was simply learned by mimicry. So in order to learn it, from a book or on the net, we need an alphabet. But then, if it has an alphabet, is it really Cimmerian?

Grim Wanderer

 

[Orkin]

We could teach the language orally, as in the "old days" in a stone hut high in the mountains, but why bother? Learning is best done when reenforced with visuals.

Even modern languages that do have their own script (though different from our own) are usually taught at first using Romanized spelling. I see no contradiction in doing this.

First things first; we need to develop the grammar and vocabulary... :roll: