Air vehicle combat

[apoc527]

Hello everyone,

I need some assistance working out how air combat is supposed to work in MGT. I am going to be designing a new campaign based on a combination of concepts (X-files style alien conspiracy investigations leading to X-com style alien combat leading to Stargate style space travel). What I need for the middle part is a workable air combat system to simulate intercepts of UFOs.

I've got all the MGT books, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how air combat is supposed to work. Clearly, if you use the DM for movement, nothing ever hits anything in air or high speed vehicular combat. I've got the Hammer's Slammers book and I'll be cribbing from that for advanced combat rules if necessary, but what I need is something relatively straightforward for simple air-to-air engagements.

Does anyone have any rules worked up or know of a supplement (third party or otherwise) that covers this?

Thanks!

 

[DFW]

Do you mean like current day combat aircraft vs. Traveller TL spaceships?

 

[rust]

Does anyone have any rules worked up or know of a supplement (third party or otherwise) that covers this?

COAAC includes rules for air combat, but I have no idea how good or bad
they are, I have never used them:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=398&it=1&filters=0_0_40050_10134&manufacturers_id=4

 

[apoc527]

Kind of. More like modern F-22 Raptors versus small craft. The UFOs can be shot down with missiles, so they aren't too tough.

 

[DFW]

Kind of. More like modern F-22 Raptors versus small craft. The UFOs can be shot down with missiles, so they aren't too tough.

Then they aren't Traveller small craft. At least not above TL 8. You may have to devise your own system.

 

[apoc527]

Step one is to simply reduce drastically the multiplier for "ship weapons" from x50 to x10. This way, 1d6 of starship weapon = 10d6 of character/vehicle scale weapon.

There's also the errata for HG to consider, but that assumes the x50 damage multiplier.

I guess I'll have to think about it.

However, the damage mechanics are less important to me right now than simply having a set of RULES to use. The rules should include firing weapons in air-to-air combat, but more necessary are chase mechanics or maneuvers. I'll have to check out COACC.

 

[DFW]

There's also the errata for HG to consider, but that assumes the x50 damage multiplier.

I guess I'll have to think about it.

Yes, that is because ship hulls are tough enough to survive high speed space travel. Without that they'd be shredded easily by any tiny particle they run into during interplanetary travel and while skimming the upper atmosphere of a GG.

 

[apoc527]

True, but I find x50 to be excessive. Traveller does not scale well between characters, vehicles, and starships, which unfortunately limits its utility sometimes.

 

[apoc527]

You know, I suppose I can always construct the "modern interceptor" as a small craft. That might be easier.

 

[DFW]

True, but I find x50 to be excessive. Traveller does not scale well between characters, vehicles, and starships, which unfortunately limits its utility sometimes.

No, it scales correctly. Starships are immensely strong and their weapons built for combat against other starships.

Consider; the current anti ship missiles, tank shells, etc., would bounce off the hull armour of the USS Missouri. Why? Because it was built to sustain hits from other 16 inch guns. It's guns in turn would shred ANY ship or vehicle, tank, etc. that exists today. It's not a matter of scale, it is a matter of being correctly purpose built.

Now, if your planes were equipped with nuke missiles, you could fight them.

 

[AndrewW]

You know, I suppose I can always construct the "modern interceptor" as a small craft. That might be easier.

There's an Interceptor Mk. III in Traders & Gunboats, though it's a technology level 12 design (I know it says 11...) not sure what level you need but might give you a basis to start with.

There's also the vehicle system. Military Vehicles has an Interceptor.

 

[apoc527]

Yes, but that can't take out spacecraft.

 

[DFW]

Yes, but that can't take out spacecraft.

FWIW, in the real world they can't either.

 

[rust]

Yes, but that can't take out spacecraft.

FWIW, in the real world they can't either.

I am not so sure, there are ways for current aircraft to take out current
spacecraft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-135_ASAT

 

[rinku]

It's a matter of designing the craft and weapon for the role. If you have an enemy with starship hulls and you only have supersonic jets, arm them with missiles that can beat that armour. That's how armoured naval ships are dealt with, after all.

As for dogfights... HERO had quite a neat dogfighting set, based on opposing rolls. I'm mostly familiar with the 3rd and 4th editon one. Robot Hero would be the perfect product for this sort of campaign...

 

[DFW]

I am not so sure, there are ways for current aircraft to take out current
spacecraft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-135_ASAT

Not quite. Tin foil satellite not equal to a real space craft.

 

[rust]

Not quite. Tin foil satellite not equal to a real space craft.

I very much doubt that any of the current spacecraft, whether Chinese,
Russian or US, would survive an ASAT hit.

 

[DFW]

Not quite. Tin foil satellite not equal to a real space craft.

I very much doubt that any of the current spacecraft, whether Chinese,
Russian or US, would survive an ASAT hit.

Um, you seem to misunderstand what we're talking about vis-a-vis "spaceships" and this thread...

 

[rust]

Um, you seem to misunderstand what we're talking about vis-a-vis "spaceships" and this thread...

Not at all.

The ASAT example shows that even a comparatively low tech aircraft
can carry a missile of the range and precision to hit a spacecraft, and
the ASAT is considerably bigger than the average Traveller anti-ship
missile and therefore can deliver a payload that is at least as dama-
ging.

So, if we accept that those smaller Traveller missiles can do damage
to a spaceship hull, I see no reason why we should not accept that a
lower tech missile fired by an aircraft can do so, too. :wink:

 

[DFW]

The ASAT example shows that even a comparatively low tech aircraftcan carry a missile of the range and precision to hit a spacecraft, and
the ASAT is considerably bigger than the average Traveller anti-ship
missile and therefore can deliver a payload that is at least as dama-
ging.

Actually not. My uncle (O6) was on the design team. It couldn't hurt anything that isn't a thin skinned sat. It only carries enough to do that.