Adaptive Armor

[Methos5000]

I have a question about how adaptive armor works. I dont have the book in front of me right now but I believe the rules state that whenever a weapon system scores a hit on the WS damage and crew is halved.

Now does that mean the entire volley from a single ship or if the ship has two weapons systems in an arc each one is halved seperatly?

I ask because I tried a couple scenarios last weekend using the WSs and though they were effective they seemed to get de-crewed rather quick.

Now I dont have SFOS or Armageddon yet, but I have the revised core rule book so my understanding is the SFOS rule updates are already in there.

I lost one scenario where I had 2 WSs vs 1 Minbari Battle Priority ship. Both my WSs ended up de-crewed but had very little damage. The Minbari ship was damaged but my biggest problem was beating the stealth rating of the ship(Bad roles on my part, my dice are cursed I think)

I was calculating damage per weapon system but I thought i saw on the forums where some have said calculate all damage then halve, I just want to be sure im doing this right.

Thanks

 

[Majeh]

The total damage halved was the oringinal way of doing it. It has now been changed since SFoS.
For each individual weapon system you fire you roll your ad. How many of that roll succeeds the total is halved roudned down.
Ex: Ship (A) has 2 weapon systems and starts firing on Ship (B) with Weapon (1). Weapon one hits him 4 times. Adaptive armor cuts it down to 2. Ship (a)'s controller now rolls to see if those 2 dice are solid hits or crits (or misses).
Now Ship (A) fires Weapon system (2). It hits 11 times. Adaptive armor cuts it down to 5 (Half of 11 is 5.5, you round down to 5). Now you roll to see if those 5 are misses/solid hits/critcals.

Thats basicly how adaptive armor works. Now lets say if Ship (B) was a White Star.
Ex2: Ship (A) fires Weapon system (1) ; a non beam weapon; on the White star and scores 5 hits. The white star rolls its dodge first and sees if it dodges. It dodges 3. Adaptive armor cuts the remaining 2 hits down to 1.

 

[Burger]

You halve all damage for each individual weapon system. Round down, to a minimum of 1.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The total damage halved was the oringinal way of doing it. It has now been changed since SFoS.
For each individual weapon system you fire you roll your ad. How many of that roll succeeds the total is halved roudned down.
Ex: Ship (A) has 2 weapon systems and starts firing on Ship (B) with Weapon (1). Weapon one hits him 4 times. Adaptive armor cuts it down to 2. Ship (a)'s controller now rolls to see if those 2 dice are solid hits or crits (or misses).
Now Ship (A) fires Weapon system (2). It hits 11 times. Adaptive armor cuts it down to 5 (Half of 11 is 5.5, you round down to 5). Now you roll to see if those 5 are misses/solid hits/critcals.

Thats basicly how adaptive armor works. Now lets say if Ship (B) was a White Star.
Ex2: Ship (A) fires Weapon system (1) ; a non beam weapon; on the White star and scores 5 hits. The white star rolls its dodge first and sees if it dodges. It dodges 3. Adaptive armor cuts the remaining 2 hits down to 1.

Since when does adaptive armour half the number of hits instead of the total damage?

 

[Burger]

Since when does adaptive armour half the number of hits instead of the total damage?

You're right LDD, Majeh had it totally wrong. Ignore his examples.

Proper example:
Ship fires weapon 1 at White Star. Gets 11 hits, 5 are dodged, so 6 hit in total. 2 crits, 3 solid hits and one bulkhead (5 damage, 5 crew so far). The crits are a 1-1 and a 3-6, for 3 extra damage and 4 extra crew. Total for this weapon is 8 damage, 9 crew. Adaptive Armour halves this to get 4 damage and 4 crew lost.

3 flights of Frazi then attack. The first gets 2 hits, 1 is dodged, the remianing hit is a solid hit for 1 damage, 1 crew. Adaptive Armour halves to a minimum of 1, so 1 damage and 1 crew is lost. Second flight gets 3 hits, none of which are dodged. 3 solid hits, for 3 damage and 3 crew... AA halves this to 1 damage and 1 crew. The third Frazi flight scores a 4-5 weapon crit, random weapon arc down, oh look WS only has 1. Well thats what usually happens to me, anyway!

 

[Locutus9956]

Burgers version is the correct one.

You resolve ALL damage from each weapon system including dodges, interceptors crits, GEGs etc and THEN halve the resulting damage and crew loss (rounding down to a minimum of one). Then repeat for the next weapon firing at that ship.

Incidentally this is not a change for SFoS this is the way Adaptive armour has ALWAYS worked, the only difference in the original rules was that it didn't effect crew loss!

 

[Burger]

If only the rulesmasters topics hadn't been deleted, I'd be able to link to a thread explaining the order of all the traits (does GEG come before or after CBD? Was that ever resolved?)

 

[Locutus9956]

I believe it was resolved to be before (as CBD is basically a mechanism for effectively minisming the effect of damage that has been inflicted)

As far as I understand it this is the order it would go in a for ship with just about every defensive mechanism in the game being shot at with a single weapon:

Declare fire

Roll stealth - stealth attempts to actively 'spoof' the firing ship, if it fails the roll it has completely missed so dont even bother rolling! Its weapons HAVE fired though (important for slow loading weapons), otherwise --->

Roll to hit - resolve how many times you have hit the target including any beam, twin linked and so on rolls. then ---->

Resolve dodges - the first thing a ship with this trait will do now is try to physically get out of the way of the shots! roll dodges for all non anti fighter shots, then ---->

Resolve interceptors - any shots still on target that arent beams will then be targeted by the ships interceptor system attempting to shoot the incoming shots down before they impact. Resolve intercpetors, then ---->

Resolve damage - at this point the shots actually impact the target, resolve damage including crits to determine their effect, then ---->

GEG - GEGs will abosrb a little of that damage. Note however that no damage from a CRITICAL hit can be abosrbed even if there isnt enough non critical damage to use up the full GEG rating. Deduct the GEG rating from non critical damage inflicted. then ---->

Adaptive armour - any damage not blocked by the GEGs will be minimised now by adaptive armour. Halve the amount of damage and crew inflicted, rounding down to a minimum of 1. then ---->

Close blast doors - bulkheads slam shut trying to contain any damage thats actually gets past all the defences. Make your roll for each point of damage remaining. This DOES NOT save the crew though (blast doors contain explosions and fires and stop more of the ship decompressing, it doesnt get the crew out of those areas....) then ---->

Apply what you have left. Cross off the damage and crew from the ship control sheet!

Repeat this process for every WEAPON SYSTEM that strikes the target ship!

 

[LordClinto]

Don't have the book in front of me at the moment.

Where does it say that crew loss is halved? I thought only damage was halved.

If so my White stars have been decrewed way too many times!!

 

[Burger]

Where does it say that crew loss is halved? I thought only damage was halved.

In the Adaptive Armour part. This was a change introduced in SFOS, before then, crew loss was not halved (and WS had crew of 8 :shock: )

 

[Silvereye]

Adaptive Armour will now halve hits from both Damage and Crew. ....

 

[LordClinto]

I only have the Revised Rules, which should include SFOS changes, must have missed it.

Ahh well that makes sense then, thanks.

 

[Voronesh]

Yer , and never forget critical damage is also halved. Even though the damage from explosion happens inside the adaptive armor, we played that wrong.....

And always roll single weapon banks. Fighters can ping WS to death.

 

[Methos5000]

Okay so it seems I was calculating it correctly then. So if they take enough fire the WSs can be de-crewed rather quickly.

Well, thanks for your help everyone.

 

[Voronesh]

Actually it needs 2 turns of self repair to even out the 10 damage versus 12 crew.

If youre lucky (or an owner of multitudes of Sags) you dont have to do 12(24) damage but rather 10(20) to kill one.

 

[Majeh]

Well sorry. My group explained it to me differently then, which had confused me to start with.

 

[CZuschlag]

Burger, we did have a preliminary ruling that GEG was applied before Close Blast Doors. And yes, I do wish Rulemasters was back ... I miss my sequence of play.

It included scout declaration, resolving firing on bases, when crits took effect, removal of special actions, resolution of explosions ... I ain't writing all that up again.

 

[Burger]

Burger, we did have a preliminary ruling that GEG was applied before Close Blast Doors. And yes, I do wish Rulemasters was back ... I miss my sequence of play.

It included scout declaration, resolving firing on bases, when crits took effect, removal of special actions, resolution of explosions ... I ain't writing all that up again.

I'm going to bump my question in rulesmasters asking where they went weekly, until I get an answer or get a PM from a mod telling me to stop!!! :lol:

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I'd assume they just did a mass delete - most board software will let you prune inactive threads over a certain date. Probably they either didn't realise or accidentally included rulesmasters alongside the discussion boards.

 

[Burger]

I'd assume they just did a mass delete - most board software will let you prune inactive threads over a certain date. Probably they either didn't realise or accidentally included rulesmasters alongside the discussion boards.

Yeah but some explaination would be nice. A lot of people put a lot of effort into answering queries on rulesmasters, and a lot of people used it as a reference for rules and answering questions when they recurred.