ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
I was just wondering...
A Sculpting Poll
- Thread starter ScipioAmericanus
- Start date
The slupts are fine, i think what is needed is a better direction presented to the sculpters, maybe a bit more invovment and critical/praise communication between the sculpter and mongoose durring the sclupt,
tis early days, at the moment the sculpters are on contract, if they worked in house im sure quality would improve, but mongoose isnt at that stage yet.
it will all take time.
tis early days, at the moment the sculpters are on contract, if they worked in house im sure quality would improve, but mongoose isnt at that stage yet.
it will all take time.
The Old Soldier
Mongoose
The sculpts are fine by me. I'd had rather MGP had taken the slaves in a different direction. Really, these negative topic, do nothing.
Dr. Rooster
Mongoose
Well, it's not like I don't like the sculpts, but they need to be more true to the concept art.
Just take a better direction...
Just take a better direction...
I was a sculptor for years for a small animatronics company, so I know how tough it can get, but I really do feel like the quality has to increase. I don't know if that means new people or not though. I mean it's not like there aren't some awesome sculpts from MGP (exos for example), but lately it just seems like everything I see from them is WELL BELOW the current industry standards. It kind of makes me wonder if they're just trying to put out too much too fast, and just getting spread too thin.
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
Well from what Ive heared from people who have worked for Mongoose as sculpters the problem is the lack of concept art. You can't expect to open a rule book point out a picture and expect a sculpter to produce a top quality piec from that (And I kinda wonder what the art work in the skinny book is like based on the releases...). Otherwise Ive heared nothing but good things about the company.
BUT the current sculpter cannot do faces! one of those slaves looks like Conan in a freaking dress!
And other than the exos, which are probably from someone else, (And which it must be pointed out are robots- You try and sculpt a robotic thing yourself, then try and do a person.... Robots are a LOT easier arent they?) most of the new releases are either rushed at best, and unmentionable at worst.
Ok, end of the day I think it might be because of the insistance to do box sets. Ive said this before, but its worth resaying. Most of the diffinitive model ranges unsupprisingly DON'T all come out at the same time in a box for £25. They are in fact built up over time, released in blisters, allowing the sculpter to take his time getting things right, and change things that look shit, like microwaves and flashlights as weapons, or gorilla faces on "humans".
BUT the current sculpter cannot do faces! one of those slaves looks like Conan in a freaking dress!
And other than the exos, which are probably from someone else, (And which it must be pointed out are robots- You try and sculpt a robotic thing yourself, then try and do a person.... Robots are a LOT easier arent they?) most of the new releases are either rushed at best, and unmentionable at worst.
Ok, end of the day I think it might be because of the insistance to do box sets. Ive said this before, but its worth resaying. Most of the diffinitive model ranges unsupprisingly DON'T all come out at the same time in a box for £25. They are in fact built up over time, released in blisters, allowing the sculpter to take his time getting things right, and change things that look shit, like microwaves and flashlights as weapons, or gorilla faces on "humans".
I think the important thing to remember is; look at how long all the big companies have been going, now consider the fact mongoose have only been doing SST for a year or so and yet they still manage to compete against the big companies. In time the sculpting will get better and so will mongoose's range of products etc.
Regards Oldbury
Regards Oldbury
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
Oldbury said:
Thats the worst and lamest arguament ever, and it gets freaking carted out every time!
Confrantation was orgasmic when it first came out, small company thats grown with succes.
Warmachine likewise had amazing models on the launch.
Theres loads of INDEPENDANT manufacturers putting out models that put mongooses to shame with a fraction of the resources of the company, for instance Hasslefree or Heresy.
But the worst thing about it all is that people ARE willing to overlook bad sculpts, but the releases are getting worse!
(other than the exos and the skimmer, but having to refer to the same two good releases every time is getting boring)
Besides Mongoose is not such a small company any more, they publish loads of D20 stuff for third parties now.
===> Edit:
Further more I contend that it is this exact same appologetic line of arguing thats led to the B5 miniatures! To paraphrase a part from starship troopers, when you're training a puppy some times you gotta rub his nose in his poop so he knows what he's doiung wrong!
ScipioAmericanus
Mongoose
The Old Soldier said:
This was not intended to be a negative topic! I love MGP! I totally abandoned 40K for SST, and MGP have been kind enough to include my artwork in (so far) five of their publications.
Since this is a company-run forum, and we're all family here, I wanted to get a feel for how others of my bretheren feel about the recent releases.
If I'm the only one that feels that the miniatures need some serious attention, then so be it. However, judging by the poll results and comments so far, I'm not alone.
I, like all of us, want SST (and MGP) to be a huge success!!! Outside of this forum you won't hear me say anything other than "Rah! Rah! Rah!"
Still, I am getting a little tired of hearing potential players say "Ugh! Those figs are mo-fugly!" (an actual quote from a guy at my FLGS). He played, and was interested but got lukewarm when he saw the female MI, the Micros, and a pic of the Slaves. The bugs always get rave reviews, however. Maybe he'll be yet another Bug player.
And let's face it: WHY should a miniature release for the game be the STARTING POINT or a source of BITS and PIECES for a troop type? I'm talking about the Slaves. Now, I love converting and customizing, but if I know I will have to do MAJOR surgery on every fig before they're even released how inclined will I be to purchase them?
We're all friends here. And this poll is meant for friends.
Regards.
Gauntlet-
Banded Mongoose
wihtout knowing exactly how they divide their sculpt work i have the following to say...
They do robots very very nicely, the only model with any real problem is the CHAS and most ppl eem to be happy with it, i find the head to be a mutt and not very likable compared to the CGI
They do bugs... again very well, the ripplers and overseers are really nice looking, the King Tanker was also very nice... however it seems from observation that concept art and direct yield better models, and i think mongoose had loads of reference for all the bugs. The Overseer is really justa bloated rippler.
Humans, anything with a helmet and things go fine... the faces in the MI are less than what some want, but are very adaptable.. and I like face plates alot better anyways lol
So where have they fallen short? Skinnies, most of the 'bad' sculpts have been skinnies, and I feel its because of the lack of concept art and more importantly... How BAD the concept art is! Most of MGP art in general, I would sooner toss into the fireplace than look through. I can only think that means bad things for the sculpters who have to make these models. Seriously I see what alot of graphic designers and illustrators can do, My brother for example has degrees in both and painting. Hed work cheaper than anyone who has say 5 years experience, so unless that artist is getting paid Very VERY little, they should be rehiring.
There does seem to be a sculpter who cant do faces, but I can forgive that because theyd probablly do better on everything else if they had better art to guide them.
They do robots very very nicely, the only model with any real problem is the CHAS and most ppl eem to be happy with it, i find the head to be a mutt and not very likable compared to the CGI
They do bugs... again very well, the ripplers and overseers are really nice looking, the King Tanker was also very nice... however it seems from observation that concept art and direct yield better models, and i think mongoose had loads of reference for all the bugs. The Overseer is really justa bloated rippler.
Humans, anything with a helmet and things go fine... the faces in the MI are less than what some want, but are very adaptable.. and I like face plates alot better anyways lol
So where have they fallen short? Skinnies, most of the 'bad' sculpts have been skinnies, and I feel its because of the lack of concept art and more importantly... How BAD the concept art is! Most of MGP art in general, I would sooner toss into the fireplace than look through. I can only think that means bad things for the sculpters who have to make these models. Seriously I see what alot of graphic designers and illustrators can do, My brother for example has degrees in both and painting. Hed work cheaper than anyone who has say 5 years experience, so unless that artist is getting paid Very VERY little, they should be rehiring.
There does seem to be a sculpter who cant do faces, but I can forgive that because theyd probablly do better on everything else if they had better art to guide them.
emperorpenguin
Mongoose
Gauntlet2 said:
Sadly I have to agree. As I said re: the General, there is nothing wrong with the sculpt, the artwork was terrible to start with, likewise the slaves, the venerable marauder which appears a carbon copy of eldar war walkers etc
I agree, If Im going to blame anyone, I blame the conception. The concepts also varied massively. MGP should have got a team that could wourk together closely to form some real concepts. Not just an array of what they think skinnies should look like and random costumes that vary massively. The venerable marauder, according to the concepts is ridden by a raider, not a venerable. Whats that all about?!
As I have said before, I think they should be re-released next year. Most of the sculpts can stick, but some of them are really not cool. I want a range of models that flows throughout. Most of the skinnies IMO in person are nice. Only problem I have is the changing head sizes, teeth styles etc. Im having to try my hardest to convert most of my skinnies to match the earlier ones.
As I have said before, I think they should be re-released next year. Most of the sculpts can stick, but some of them are really not cool. I want a range of models that flows throughout. Most of the skinnies IMO in person are nice. Only problem I have is the changing head sizes, teeth styles etc. Im having to try my hardest to convert most of my skinnies to match the earlier ones.
Games&Theory
Mongoose
I knew things were going to be touch and go for the Skinnies when the concept art was released and not many of the designs were very good. And that’s not trying to be nitpicky. I can appreciate something as good looking even if it’s not to my own particular taste.
Unfortuantely, with the exception of the Soldiers, none of the Skinnie models have surpassed the VERY mediocre concepts designs we saw. Which is quite a shame because the Skinnies are one of the three original races and deserve to be able to draw modelers and players in by looks alone.
Personally, I’m thrilled to hear that new alternate sculpts are being done for the leaders, at least, because almost every one of them was pretty darned weak. Now if we could get them to do a none-disco themed Venerable unit, I'd be willing to do a full blown Skinnie army.
G&T
PS - All that hatin’ aside, I have very little worries about the design strength of the Forth. Even for a world that has seen a LOT of robots and of different styles, these guys look GOOD and will probably be impressive from day one. The fact that gameplay sounds good too is just thrilling.
It seems like lessons were indeed learned from the Skinnies.
Unfortuantely, with the exception of the Soldiers, none of the Skinnie models have surpassed the VERY mediocre concepts designs we saw. Which is quite a shame because the Skinnies are one of the three original races and deserve to be able to draw modelers and players in by looks alone.
Personally, I’m thrilled to hear that new alternate sculpts are being done for the leaders, at least, because almost every one of them was pretty darned weak. Now if we could get them to do a none-disco themed Venerable unit, I'd be willing to do a full blown Skinnie army.
G&T
PS - All that hatin’ aside, I have very little worries about the design strength of the Forth. Even for a world that has seen a LOT of robots and of different styles, these guys look GOOD and will probably be impressive from day one. The fact that gameplay sounds good too is just thrilling.
It seems like lessons were indeed learned from the Skinnies.
retaf33c
Mongoose
I agree, with MaxSteiner. Mongoose can't hide behind the statement they only been doing SST for a year or so.
The fact of the matter is sculpts from Confrontation, Warmachine, Hordes and others have raised the bar; poor sculpts just won't make it.
Their models have been awesome. For reviews of released minis, I would check out the ezine Fictional Reality at http://www.fictionalreality.org/
The competition is now tough. When GW was starting up, they were practically the only game in town (sorry about the pun). Now we have choices for games. Many not only have good looking minis but are equally as enjoyable to play as SST. The leaders seem to be the skirmish level games because you don't have to spend a lot of money to start playing.
So SST has basically two strikes against it: 1) Their latest minis are not viewed as being as good as the competition; 2) The startup costs for a playable army vs the skirmish games is considerably more. Fortunately, the game is solid and enjoyable.
Now my concern now is that no matter what Mongoose does it may be too late for my area. My LGS is considering dropping the game because the product isn't moving. They have already stopped all deliveries of new product for the time being. Since they are the only store I know that carries the game in a two hour driving radius, good luck finding opponents. If the forth don't knock our socks off, I suspect my LGS will drop the game.
There is a good chance that this is being considered at your favorite store.
The fact of the matter is sculpts from Confrontation, Warmachine, Hordes and others have raised the bar; poor sculpts just won't make it.
Their models have been awesome. For reviews of released minis, I would check out the ezine Fictional Reality at http://www.fictionalreality.org/
The competition is now tough. When GW was starting up, they were practically the only game in town (sorry about the pun). Now we have choices for games. Many not only have good looking minis but are equally as enjoyable to play as SST. The leaders seem to be the skirmish level games because you don't have to spend a lot of money to start playing.
So SST has basically two strikes against it: 1) Their latest minis are not viewed as being as good as the competition; 2) The startup costs for a playable army vs the skirmish games is considerably more. Fortunately, the game is solid and enjoyable.
Now my concern now is that no matter what Mongoose does it may be too late for my area. My LGS is considering dropping the game because the product isn't moving. They have already stopped all deliveries of new product for the time being. Since they are the only store I know that carries the game in a two hour driving radius, good luck finding opponents. If the forth don't knock our socks off, I suspect my LGS will drop the game.
There is a good chance that this is being considered at your favorite store.
retaf33c said:
Actually, no. My local store (oddly, the one I drive furthest out to) is happily carrying the game, we have about three or four people (Excluding myself) who buy the products when they come in.
Also, the Forth will blow our socks off (at least from the greens I've seen), so hang in there.
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
Hiro for gods sake, you're saying eactly what he said!
If you have to drive hours and hours to get to the store the game ISN't supported in you're local area.
Furthermore, if at this shop where you, and I assume others travel to and from for a long time, having 5 players isn't a sign of the games future being secure! But saying that the games a hell of a lot better supported in you're area than mine...
Take a look at Ebay, theres net to no SST stuff on there compared to what there was a few months back.
Lots of people had been predicting that a constant set of lack lustre releases would damage the game, and its happening as we speak.
People are willing to support the game (Hell when I bought the arachnid army pamphlet for £15 I was pissed of, but I was willing to let it slide) but mongoose has GOT to improve the releases. Robots are all very well and good, but it doesn't prove the sculpters have an understanding of anatomy.
Giant Robot war games are also the NEXT big thing, rackham has its new one coming out, Westwind has their alternate WW2, new battle tech etc. so competitiions is going to be fierce, meaning that it'll be the success of the range as a whole that determines the games success, not a few shiny sexy models. As it stands at the moment though the skinny range is a major hurdle.
If you have to drive hours and hours to get to the store the game ISN't supported in you're local area.
Furthermore, if at this shop where you, and I assume others travel to and from for a long time, having 5 players isn't a sign of the games future being secure! But saying that the games a hell of a lot better supported in you're area than mine...
Take a look at Ebay, theres net to no SST stuff on there compared to what there was a few months back.
Lots of people had been predicting that a constant set of lack lustre releases would damage the game, and its happening as we speak.
People are willing to support the game (Hell when I bought the arachnid army pamphlet for £15 I was pissed of, but I was willing to let it slide) but mongoose has GOT to improve the releases. Robots are all very well and good, but it doesn't prove the sculpters have an understanding of anatomy.
Giant Robot war games are also the NEXT big thing, rackham has its new one coming out, Westwind has their alternate WW2, new battle tech etc. so competitiions is going to be fierce, meaning that it'll be the success of the range as a whole that determines the games success, not a few shiny sexy models. As it stands at the moment though the skinny range is a major hurdle.
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