A Middle Years Fleet Update for ACtA:SF?

[Nerroth]

In Star Fleet Universe terms, the modern era of starship design started in the Alpha Octant in the Y120s, when the first Constitution-class cruisers and Klingon D6s entered service. However, these ships as they first served did not have the same stats you see in A Call to Arms: Star Fleet; the "default" version currently available incorporate a series of refits which were incorporated into these hulls by the time of the General War.

The "pre-refit" era is referred to as the Middle Years, running from the Y120s through to the end of the Four Powers War in Y162 (or thereabouts). This was the time of the "trivideo events" from the on-screen source material; the famous "five-year mission" took place from Y154-159, while the incident at Talos IV happened in Y142.

Each star navy had its own set of challenges in this era. Most ships had weaker aft shields, which put a premium on careful maneuver. Drones were slower (and far less common) in this time period; only the Kzintis used them in any great numbers, while the Federation had yet to adopt them to any great extent. No plasma ships had S-torps yet, and no carronades either. Early dreadnoughts had fewer heavy weapons; the Klingon C6 (the immediate forerunner to the C8) had only four disruptors. Also, none of the "war" class ships existed yet, so fleets had to make do without the likes of the Fed NCL, Klingon D5, or Romulan SparrowHawk.

And did I mention the part of there being less drones?



In Star Fleet Battles, the Middle Years hulls are part of the game's very beginnings; as shown by the inclusion of many "pre-war" hulls in Basic Set itself. In Federation Commander, things are a little different; most of the Middle Years Ship Cards are offered in FC: Briefing #2, while the "Franz Joseph" designs inherited dorectly from the Star Fleet Technical Manual are in Booster #91 (and offered in miniature form in Starline 2400's Squadron Box #91.)

Presumably, there may one day be the chance for a Starline 2500 take on SB91; but even while the likes of the Saladin-class destroyer and the original FJ take on the Federation-class dreadnought still lie in reserve, could a Fleet Update covering the ships in Briefing #2 still be an option?


Victory at Sea currently has two distinct settings; with one set of rules looking at the Second World War, and another going back to WWI.

Doing something similar for ACtA:SF would (for the most part) not need much in the way of new minis, but could be a way of offering players a different set of tactical challenges with the pre-existing Starline 2500 range (and the "pre-war" ships from wave 2 which would be eligible for use in this time period).

Does that sound like it might be worth considering?

 

[Ben2]

It could be done via fleet updates to see if it was popular.

The Federation fight quite a big and also a fairly lengthy war with the Kzinti in this era.

I was thinking of suggesting some ship ideas/variants specific to the middle era that become obsolete/are superseded by the General War. The Federation Old Heavy Cruiser is one example of this already in the background, as well as the Klingon LD5 light cruiser from module R8. The Kzinti-Federation war would be a good opportunity for both sides to have some experimental ships that seem like a great idea on paper and turn out to be terrible.

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been done is a Klingon E3 hull with a G2 boom, giving 2 short range disruptors and 2 phaser-2s on the E3 hull, which would give you a sort of pocket E4. I can see why the E3 has 4 phaser-3s instead of 2 phaser-2s (shooting down drones), but with slower and less numerous drones around a 'frigate' E3 version would be an idea. I don't know if there is such a ship in Module R11.

 

[Nerroth]

Given the must-have-a-mini-for-each-ship rule, the likes of the OCA and LD5 might have to wait, as would the "Franz Joseph" hulls (and the Middle Years Lyrans and Hydrans, for that matter).

But even so, there are still plenty of ships that can be covered by the pre-existing minis.


Oh, and to help give a sense of what some of the rules needed for the Middle Years might be:

*Drones would be reduced to range 24. (If the current range equates to three turns in FC at speed 24, drones moving at speed 16 over the same period would cover two-thirds of that same distance.)

*Most Klingon ships can only fire one drone per turn out of each pair of racks, so would effectively see their ADs reduced by half. (Only a handful of ships, like the D7C, would keep their Main Era Attack Dice numbers.)

*There is no plasma-S launcher, and no carronade. (Plasma firing arcs would be narrower, too, due to the lack of swivel mounts.)

*Tholians wouldn't have the "snare" benefit from web. (Basically, the provisional web ability in ACtA:SF wouldn't be available.)


If/when the Lyrans and Hydrans show up, they too would have a few changes here and there; but those would depend on what their Main Era rules look like (in order to be able to work back to their Middle Years equivalents).

 

[dix]

I would love to see the Middle Years in ACTA! The ships become quite a bit simpler and faster to play (especially without so many drones). Alot of ships would lose their AntiDrone trait as well. I kind of wonder how shields would be dealt with, though. In SFB/FC, Middle Years ships generally have weaker aft shields while the forward ones tend to stay the same. Perhaps, the ships would have a shield rule similar to the Klingons?

 

[Nerroth]

The issue there might be working out just what the ship's shield score would change to. (I haven't quite worked out how the current Klingon shields ratings were worked up.)

What about an inverse version of the Klingon shield rule, that decreases the effectiveness of shields in the aft arc? Many Middle Years ships still have reasonable shield values to port and starboard, but drop off further aft.

Perhaps allowing shield bypasses on a 5 or 6, or something.

(Tholians would not need it, since their ships had thick shield all around even then.)

 

[storeylf]

Even in the middle years I thought it was still only the klingons who had the noticeably weaker shields. Most others may have been a few points short, but not that bad. Am I misremembering?

 

[dix]

What about an inverse version of the Klingon shield rule, that decreases the effectiveness of shields in the aft arc? Many Middle Years ships still have reasonable shield values to port and starboard, but drop off further aft.

Perhaps allowing shield bypasses on a 5 or 6, or something.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Nerroth]

I double-checked the Ship Cards in FCB2, and it seems that the Gorns and Kzintis wouldn't need such a rule; their aft shields seem to be sturdy enough. The Orions (and Lyrans, and Hydrans, to include fleets yet to arrive) seem to stand out more, so they could get such a rule if it were deemed necessary. The Feds have a little bit of drop-off, but not a massive amount, so I guess they could go either way.

 

[Stealth7]

I would also love an 'early war' version. Where Mongoose decided to start is also the beginning of where SFB lost players. Back when, each fleet had a VERY specific flavor, when the General War rolled in all of a sudden every fleet had similar war cruisers, everyone had carriers, drones, ph-3 upgrades, etc.

 

[Allerka]

I dunno, it still feels like each of the five fleets currently in the game have quite different feels to them. Sounds like the Hydrans will be pretty distinctive too once they get a fleet.

 

[LimeyDragon]

This topic sounds a bit like the ACTA:B5 with the earth alliance have ships listed in 3 sections.. Early Years, Third Age, Excalibur and ISA. MGP at the time had ships for each era and a lot of them did overlap from era to era. Perhaps the same thing can be done with ACTA:SF..?

 

[McKinstry]

This topic sounds a bit like the ACTA:B5 with the earth alliance have ships listed in 3 sections.. Early Years, Third Age, Excalibur and ISA. MGP at the time had ships for each era and a lot of them did overlap from era to era. Perhaps the same thing can be done with ACTA:SF..?

That would be great. No need for new models for the most part, just switch stats and you have three different games within the rules set.

 

[dix]

nerroth wrote:

I double-checked the Ship Cards in FCB2, and it seems that the Gorns and Kzintis wouldn't need such a rule; their aft shields seem to be sturdy enough. The Orions (and Lyrans, and Hydrans, to include fleets yet to arrive) seem to stand out more, so they could get such a rule if it were deemed necessary. The Feds have a little bit of drop-off, but not a massive amount, so I guess they could go either way.

I don't have the FedCom Middle Years book but I've looked at the pre-refitted SFB ships and I think I have to agree with you. The pre-refit shields on most of the ships are generally not very different. Probably not different enough to worry about trying to represent in a fleet game, anyway.

 

[Nerroth]

This topic sounds a bit like the ACTA:B5 with the earth alliance have ships listed in 3 sections.. Early Years, Third Age, Excalibur and ISA. MGP at the time had ships for each era and a lot of them did overlap from era to era. Perhaps the same thing can be done with ACTA:SF..?

The Middle Years and Main Era can be covered in many cases with the same minis.

There are a few changes here and there; the current Fed DNG has a different secondary hull to the "Franz Joseph" DN it was converted out of, to give one example. (Presumably, if Starline 2500 ever sees its own version of the 2400-series Squadron Box #91, we may then see a FJ DN included there.)

When first-generation X-ships show up in the Y180s, there would still be plenty of non-X ships in service; so the Main Era hulls would, in many cases, continue to be available as they currently serve, at least for a while. (By the second-generation X-era in Y205, they may or may not be more firmly on the way out.)

But the two main sub-eras of the Early Years, the ships prior to the Middle Years, would need new minis to represent them properly. (With a few exceptions here and there, such as the Fed old CL and the Romulan War Eagle; less advanced versions of both ship types were around way back when, too.)

 

[Stealth7]

And bring back the old, original Fed DD ! The single saucer with a bolted on engine.

 

[McKinstry]

And bring back the old, original Fed DD ! The single saucer with a bolted on engine.

YES!

 

[Nerroth]

The best bet for that would be to see a 2500-series SB91 get done up. (The "Franz Joseph" designs require a particular set of paperwork to be used. If I'm not mistaken, it's less of a hassle for ADB to do all of those ships at once, rather than have to process each of them one at a time.)

 

[Ben2]

That's the idea that's been batted about, along with doing them to coincide with a supplement where Federation ships were thin on the ground and having the rules as a free download update to simplify things even more.

 

[Nerroth]

That's the idea that's been batted about, along with doing them to coincide with a supplement where Federation ships were thin on the ground and having the rules as a free download update to simplify things even more.

Just the rules for the Franz Joseph ships, or for the Middle Years setting as a whole?

(In FC terms, the FJ hulls are covered by Booster #91, where some of the Ship Cards are intended for use in the Main Era, and the rest for the Middle Years instead. So, converting all of those into ACtA:SF might not fit neatly, unless the MY ships were able to function in their proper context.)

 

[Ben2]

Just the Franz Joseph ships.

The Middle Years could be done like the Fleet Updates. Though you'd want to see if ADB wanted to fill out the middle years a bit more first (there's several big conflicts that might be fun to explore).