A few ideas for the upcoming Sorcerer class book...

[René]

IIRC, Vincent will be the author and since he visits this forum regularly, I'd like to give some ideas that may get their place in the book. Nothing peculiar and probably they have all been already considered by someone (e.g. the Child of Derketo on this forum a few months ago):

- some templates along the lines of Salome, Child of Jhebbal Sag and Spawn of Dagoth Hill: Child of Set (snake-like hypnotism spells), child of Hanuman (STR, Climb etc. boni), Child of Derketo [death goddess] (Necromancy boni, e.g. reduced prerequisites), Child of Derketo [love / sex goddess] (Hypnotism boni with Enslave spell as iconic), Child of Dagon (Sea witchery boni).

- a Rite of the Werebeast - like spell that creates apes: cool for Hanuman priests (I used such a spell in my campaign - the players took revenge for the changed player, slew him in the process and killed the Hanuman priest of Zamboula. And yes, they enlisted the help of the Darfari to raid the Hanuman ceremony - bad luck that the Pelishtim city guard stormed the temple while the players were still in the chambers of the priest looting :twisted: )

My two cents.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Good ideas, but the book has been finished and turned over to Mongoose months ago for editing, art, layout and so forth (The third class book is also finished and turned in several weeks ago).

The templates could work in the Bestiary, though.

 

[Mortepierre]

Do we really need more 'Child of...' templates? I mean, such 'special' NPC were ultra-rare in the Conan novels. It's not as if he fought adversaries fathered by demons or alien gods every two pages.

IMHO, the very fact that they are rare works in their favor. Few templates means they are used sparingly. Add more and pretty soon things will be just as bad as in 'classic' D&D where a half-troll-umbral-half-draconic-fiendish beast has pretty much become the 'average' enemy these days.

 

[Hyborian Apeman]

Add more and pretty soon things will be just as bad as in 'classic' D&D where a half-troll-umbral-half-draconic-fiendish beast has pretty much become the 'average' enemy these days.

Man, whatever happened to orcs and drow?

 

[René]

Do we really need more 'Child of...' templates? I mean, such 'special' NPC were ultra-rare in the Conan novels. It's not as if he fought adversaries fathered by demons or alien gods every two pages.

IMHO, the very fact that they are rare works in their favor. Few templates means they are used sparingly. Add more and pretty soon things will be just as bad as in 'classic' D&D where a half-troll-umbral-half-draconic-fiendish beast has pretty much become the 'average' enemy these days.

Seems you're of the exaggerating type.

If I counted correctly, REH wrote 26 CONAN stories, in 3 there is a "template" villain, i.e. 11.5% (I counted the unfinished fragments into the 26; maybe REH would have created some more "template" villains, if he'd finished all his CONAN tales).

So, they aren't as rare as you think. In how many REH stories are semi-intelligent apes? Maybe 4? 5? Are these apes according to your terminology "ultra-rare" in CONAN, too? IMHO they are not rare, but a basic element of REH's imagination. So maybe, more "Child" templates aren't not totally out of place.

And: no one intended to populate whole cities with these templates.

Besides: I think a "Child of Derketo" is not on the same silliness level as a "half-troll-umbral-half-draconic-fiendish beast".

Look on the other hand at the many guys on these boards who yelled for Snake Men, although REH's CONAN never encountered one...

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Hmm....talk about sychroncity. For my gaming group I decided to create a number of what I call 'Childe' templates as Feats to represent those who had non-human blood in their veins. I didn't however say that all 'Childe' were essentially evil though not automatically good either and I worked to balance the pro and cons. The upshot was that they worked pretty good- the few benefits the Childe Feat gave them were outbalanced by the social costs of being discovered as a non-human by the Hyborian populance ["Burn them! Burn Them!"] and generally greater risk of Corruption. [I have a Childe of the Elements up to 2 Corruption and pursuing the Summoning style of magic now] And of course, bad guys and neutrals could have the Feats too if I wanted them to.

I did type up a few of the Feats for my gaming group. Does anyone here want to see them as an example?

Raven

 

[Mortepierre]

Seems you're of the exaggerating type.

If I counted correctly, REH wrote 26 CONAN stories, in 3 there is a "template" villain, i.e. 11.5% (I counted the unfinished fragments into the 26; maybe REH would have created some more "template" villains, if he'd finished all his CONAN tales).

So, they aren't as rare as you think. In how many REH stories are semi-intelligent apes? Maybe 4? 5? Are these apes according to your terminology "ultra-rare" in CONAN, too? IMHO they are not rare, but a basic element of REH's imagination. So maybe, more "Child" templates aren't not totally out of place.

11.5% doesn't qualify as 'rare' by your standards? Please.. :roll:

And what does it have to do with semi-intelligent apes? Those aren't templates, they are the degenerated remnants of previous cultures. Let's not mix the two.

 

[René]

11.5% doesn't qualify as 'rare' by your standards? Please.. :roll:

And what does it have to do with semi-intelligent apes? Those aren't templates, they are the degenerated remnants of previous cultures. Let's not mix the two.

1. A supposedly exotic feature the author uses in more than 10% of his stories isn't "ultra-rare" ("ultra-rare" - the word used in your first post - is not the same as "rare" - the word you use now).

2. Mixing is not the same as comparing, and I compared, which is a standard method of thinking.
If you compare the number of appearances of semi-intelligent apes - which are by most regarded as an essential element of REH's CONAN fiction - with the number of appearances of "Child of-" characters, you will see, that the latter are - comparatively ! - not so unusual. Just start counting...

 

[René]

I did type up a few of the Feats for my gaming group. Does anyone here want to see them as an example?

Raven

Yes, Raven, it would be very kind of you to share... Thanks!

 

[Mortepierre]

1. A supposedly exotic feature the author uses in more than 10% of his stories isn't "ultra-rare" ("ultra-rare" - the word used in your first post - is not the same as "rare" - the word you use now).

Very well. But then again your ratio isn't correct. To be fair, you would need to compare the number of 'templated' opponents vs the number of non-templated opponents to reach an accurate figure. Counting in how many stories they appear is simplifying things a bit much since it makes it sound as if Conan's stories are either about fighting a templated enemy or not. I suspect the new figure would meet my description of 'ultra-rare'...

2. Mixing is not the same as comparing, and I compared, which is a standard method of thinking.
If you compare the number of appearances of semi-intelligent apes - which are by most regarded as an essential element of REH's CONAN fiction - with the number of appearances of "Child of-" characters, you will see, that the latter are - comparatively ! - not so unusual. Just start counting...

Yes, but semi-intelligent apes are hardly the equal of a templated opponent, especially if we're talking demon/deity-child ones. That's why the comparison struck me as inadequate.

That said, I certainly agree that more templates would be good but I would rather see regional or environmental templates than 'Child of X' ones. For an example, take a look at the 'quickplates' Privateer Press included in their Monsternomicon.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Okay Rene, rather than flood the topic with my handiwork, Im going to post on of my Childe Feats mentioned above and if people want more I'll post the other I have- or you can just pm with an e-mail addres and I'll send you a file. Here's an example of the aformentioned 'Childe of the Elements'. Note that the Feat refers to my variant Socery system detailed under 'Raven's Rules for Sorcery v 1.1'. If you unfamiliar with those rules, just equate the 'Element and Forces Sphere of Power' with the Presdigitation(sp?) style of Sorecery.

New Feat

Childe of the Elements

Requirements: Must be taken at first level. Character may not have any other ‘Childe ‘ Feat

Description: The character is born with a measure of his or her heritage descending from the primal being known to humans as Elementals. Children of the Elements are most common among the people of Koth and Shem. The character gains the following template type:

Size and Type: Creature type becomes a native Outsider (Elemental)

Hit Dice, Move, DV, DR, Special Attacks: All remain unchanged

Special Qualities: Creature gains:

-Darkvision, 30 feet. The creature can ‘see’ the elemental energies that comprise all matter. Objects seem to be lit by a subtle internal radiance. Magical, Ethereal, Astral and magically concealed objects may also be detectable, but require a Spot check, DC set by the nature of the spell/creature/object itself.

-Elemental Resistance: When being damaged by an elemental source such as fire and lightning of either mundane or magical origin the creature suffers 1 point of damage less per each dice of damage. In addition the character gets a +2 bonus to Survival and Fortitude checks caused by exposure or harsh environments.

Spells: While the Childe of the Elements gains no spells per se he or she does have an affinity for spells of the Elemental Sphere. Spells cast from that sphere are cast with a +1 bonus to the creature’s magical attack bonus and are cast as if the caster was one level higher Scholar than he or she is.

Favoured Class: Change to Scholar.

Base Power Points: Unchanged

Abilities: Change as follows: Con +2, Wis –2. Children of the Elements tend to be tougher than the average member of their base race, but quick to anger and prone to sudden and rash actions.

Skills: Children of the Elements gain a +2 bonus to all Craft Skills due to their innate understanding of the nature of the material properties they are working with

Corruption: Children of the Elements are more susceptible to magical energies and gain a –1 penalty against Corruption checks.

 

[René]

Thanks, Raven! Exactly these templates I had in mind with my original post! I wouldn't object, if you start "flooding" this thread with your idea on the subject.

Your sorcery rules have not been intensively read by the ignorant guy I am, but your Deep Ones have already seen use (although only from some distance - my "heroes" just looked from behind a big boulder and decided that next morning there will be enough time to look into the matter - o.k., they were really heavily wounded at the time... :wink: )

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Thanks, Raven! Exactly these templates I had in mind with my original post! I wouldn't object, if you start "flooding" this thread with your idea on the subject.

I think I have four of these templates typed up and more coming. I'll post the ones I have and post the others as I create them.

Your sorcery rules have not been intensively read by the ignorant guy I am, but your Deep Ones have already seen use (although only from some distance - my "heroes" just looked from behind a big boulder and decided that next morning there will be enough time to look into the matter - o.k., they were really heavily wounded at the time... :wink: )

If you want I can e-mail you the Word File I have of 'Raven's Rules' and the Deep Ones- just pm an e-mail address. Also, are you using the 'generic' Deep Ones I first created or the new updated Deep Ones I posted on the 'Conan and Cthulhu' forum last week?

Raven

 

[Raven Blackwell]

I was wrong I only have two typed now. Note that again the terminology I use refers to 'Raven's Rules for Sorcery v1.1'. If not usng those rules, sbstitute the Counterspells school of Sorcery for 'Blessing and Protection Sphere' and Nature school of Sorcery for 'Life and Nature Sphere'.

More will come, but I'll repost these in the 'Raven's Rules...' topic and postthe news ones as they are created there as well

Raven

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Since Nature ain't evil in my book, the following Feat is offered as a alternative to 'Child of Jebbal Sag' in Scroll of Skeleos.

Revised Feat- was 'Child of Jebbal Sag'(sp?)

Childe of Nature

Requirements: May only be taken at first level. Character may not have any other ‘Childe’ Feat

Description: The character is born with a portion of his or her heritage descending from the beings known to most as the Spirits of Nature. Children of Nature are most common among Picts, Kushites and other inhabitants of the Black Kingdoms, the Khitian and of course worshippers of the gods of nature. The character gains the following template:

Size and Type: Creature type becomes a native Outsider (Spirit)

Hit Dice, Move, DV, DR, Special Attacks: All remain unchanged

Special Qualities: Creature gains:

-Low light vision, 60 feet

-Wild Empathy: The character may attempt to affect the reaction of creature of the Animal subtype with intelligence of 2 or lower in a manner similar Diplomacy. The character makes a d20 check, adding their Cha bonus and character level. This is applied to the chart of pg. 92 of the Conan core rulebook for the purposes of modifying the creature’s reaction. Most domestic animals start with an attitude of indifferent, while most wild animals start with a attitude of unfriendly.

Spells: While the Childe of the Nature gains no spells per se he or she does have an affinity for spells of the Life and Nature Sphere. Spells cast from that sphere are cast with a +1 bonus to the creature’s magical attack bonus and are cast as if the caster was one level higher scholar than he or she is.

Favoured Class: Change to Barbarian and Scholar.

Base Power Points: Unchanged

Abilities: Change as follows: Cha +2, Str –2. Children of the Nature radiate a natural beauty unseen in most beings, but their refined forms tend to possess less muscle and sinew

Skills: Children of Nature gain a +2 bonus to all Drive Cart, Handle Animal and Ride checks.

Corruption: Children of the Nature are more susceptible to magical energies and gain a –1 penalty against Corruption checks.

 

[Raven Blackwell]

New Feat

Childe of Angels

Requirements: Must be taken at first level; Character must not have any other ‘Childe’ Feat.

Description: Your parentage is not fully human. Mingled with the blood of common mortals is the blood of some Angelic power who found a forebearer passing fair. The character gains the following profile.

Size and Type: Change to native Outsider (Angel)

Hit Dice, Initiative, Move: Remain unchanged

DV and DR: Increase by 1

Special Attacks, Special Qualities: Remain unchanged

Characteristics: Int –2; Wis +2. Children of Angels tend to think more with their heart rather than their head.

Spells: A Childe of Angels gains no spells per se but possesses a particular affinity for the Blessings and Protection Sphere of Power. Spells of that Sphere cast by the character gain a +1 bonus to the magic attack roll and are cast as if the caster were one level of Scholar higher than he or she is.

Favoured Classes: Change to Scholar and Soldier

Corruption: Children of Angels are notoriously resistant to the corrupting effect of evil sorcery, gaining a +2 bonus against all Corruption checks

Limitation: A Childe of Angels must maintain a Code of Honour [barbaric or civilized] and not possess any Corruption points to enjoy the benefits of this Feat. Should they fail to do so, they lose all benefits of this Feat and their Type reverts to Human. If the character seeks Atonement and succesfully regains their Honour and loses their Corruption the Feat once again becomes active.

 

[LokiOne]

In the myriad discussions about a potential (Or not) CONAN Bestiary - there was some mention of other 'degenerate races' of Man that could exist. Either thay are Old or maybe recently 'created' by Sorcery.

I have yet to re-read ALL of my old Conan novels, but obviously there may be some room for some considerable variation in the stock human race as existed in the novels.

Distinction must be made between whether they are intended for PC or NPC use, I suppose.

I love the cannabalistic Dafari (?)(The same ones as in underground Zamboula ??? That city in Turan ???) etc. I thought that a Conan Sphere books cover was showing me Ghouls, and I realized that they weren't undead, but just had filed teeth ...).

There are some humanoid sub-races that are quite interesting. I was a little confused as to which 'Ape-man" to use when My Players went over the Kezankian Mountains. I think that the 'Thak' creature was the most sophisticated, but I'm only going all from memory here ...

Childe of Dagon .... Dagon was an evil sea god right? I remember a character in a story I recently read mention 'Dagon of the Golden Tail', and thought that it was not necessarily 'evil'. (Sort of the Neptune of Thuria).

 

[Raphael]

Abilities: Change as follows: Cha +2, Str –2. Children of the Nature radiate a natural beauty unseen in most beings, but their refined forms tend to possess less muscle and sinew

Raven, not to pick nits, oh heck that's exactly what I'm doing. :wink:
Couldn't you just as easily reverse those ability modifiers. As in...

Abilities: Change as follows: Str +1, Con +1, Cha –2. Children of Nature are much closer to their primal selves and are striking physical specimens; however, this primal nature tends to make others uneasy around them.

Why would someone closer to Nature be weaker than someone more civilized?

Raphael

 

[Raven Blackwell]

Raven, not to pick nits, oh heck that's exactly what I'm doing. :wink: Couldn't you just as easily reverse those ability modifiers. As in...

Abilities: Change as follows: Str +1, Con +1, Cha –2. Children of Nature are much closer to their primal selves and are striking physical specimens; however, this primal nature tends to make others uneasy around them.

Why would someone closer to Nature be weaker than someone more civilized?

Raphael

When I wrote the Feat, it was with the idea that the non-human progentior was a spirit of Ntaure like a tradional nymph or dyrad- a ethereal spirit whose unshielded beauty was dangerous to mortals- as opposed to a beast like being. I do have an upcoming Feat called 'Childe of the Dark' in 'Raven's Rules for Sorcery v 1.1' more along the lines of your thinking- one with a very inhuman Spiritual progenitor.

However I see your point- a Naure spirit can be a earthy one like a satyr.
In this case I'd alter the characteristics to Str +1; Con +1; Wis -2. Satyrs are known to be hot blooded and prone to rash action. I'll make a change to the Feat in 'Raven's Rules' to allow either set of Attributes to work.

Raven