A Fate Less Certain

[Supplement Four]

The Fate Point system has never sat well with me. And, the 2nd Edition version is just plain, downright silly. I can't stand it. The game I ran before, I used 2E rules, but the AE version of the Fate Points.

I was thinking...thinking here outloud really...what if you made Fate more FATEFUL?

What if, at character creation, you threw 4D6, and dropped the lowest, for a seventh stat: Fate.

This number would be flexible. Using the AE version of the Fate system, each time the character performed a heroic task in the GM's estimation, this number (the character's Fate), would go up.

OTOH, every time a character's Fate is tested, the number goes down, regardless of the result.

How would you use the Fate stat? Well, instead of gaining "fate points", the character would simply make a FATE SAVING THROW. Success means the desired Fate effect worked. Failure mean the gods are not quite in favor with the gods.

How would a Fate stat work?

Well, when a characeter would make a chek--a saveing throw, the Fate stat or less on a d20.

Or, you could take the Fate total, subtract it fom 20, and use that as a target number.

Using the first method, when a player relyed on the fates, the player would throw a d20 for a number equal to or lower than the character's Fate total.

If that total was 16, then a 16 or less on a d20 would indicated that fate stepped in and encouraged the desired result. And, success or not, the character's Fate total was be reduced to 15. The toon will have to carry out a heroic action, the eyes of the game master to get the total raised.

 

[Spectator]

I never bought 2nd Ed.

 

[Supplement Four]

I never bought 2nd Ed.

All-in-all, I think 2nd. Ed. is a solid edition. But, there's this one, silly rule where the player has to predict a situation that will happen to his character (they call it foreshadowing).

If/when the event occurs, the character earns a fate point.

The reasoning for this, given in the book, is to give the player a method of determining some of the events he'd like to see his character play through.

I think the rule is just plain silly. The rule in AE is much better.

 

[Phobos]

I don´t apply foreshadowing, even my players think that´s is very silly...

 

[Supplement Four]

The big aspect for me is that this whole foreshadowing thing doesn't seem "fateful". It seems too "gamey", or too "out-of-game", to make it worthwhile.

A player has his character be heroic, in spite of the danger to the character, and succeeds? I can see giving the character a Fate Point.

A character makes an impossible roll when he really needs it (real Fate we're dealing with here), I can see him earning a Fate Point.

A player comes up with a fantastic idea in the game that helps the entire party? Yeah, give 'em a Fate Point.

A player role plays the hell out of a sitatution so that all are amazed? Yep, Fate Point worthy.

But...just guessing what the GM is going to do with your character down the road? Nope...don't see the "fatefulness" in that.

 

[Spectator]

The big aspect for me is that this whole foreshadowing thing doesn't seem "fateful". It seems too "gamey", or too "out-of-game", to make it worthwhile.

A player has his character be heroic, in spite of the danger to the character, and succeeds? I can see giving the character a Fate Point.

...

But...just guessing what the GM is going to do with your character down the road? Nope...don't see the "fatefulness" in that.

Takes me back when I played ADD:
ME: Hey DM, I can foresee I am going to die in your fucked up labyrynth packed with trolls, acid jellies, red dragons, liches, and orcs on steroids!!!

DM: You are right, you earned a fate point, but while pondering your future and in deep thought you fell down a 90' shaft.

ME: (somewhat dejected) Can I use the fate point, now?

DM: Sure, you mange to land in some soft mud and only sustain 2 hp of damage

ME: yippee!!!

DM: too bad that you fell into lair of trolls, awoke all 17 of them, and broke all your oil and acid flasks in your fall!

ME: oh shit. Time to rolll up a new character!

 

[cbrunish]

The big aspect for me is that this whole foreshadowing thing doesn't seem "fateful". It seems too "gamey", or too "out-of-game", to make it worthwhile.

A player has his character be heroic, in spite of the danger to the character, and succeeds? I can see giving the character a Fate Point.

...

But...just guessing what the GM is going to do with your character down the road? Nope...don't see the "fatefulness" in that.

Takes me back when I played ADD:
ME: Hey DM, I can foresee I am going to die in your fucked up labyrynth packed with trolls, acid jellies, red dragons, liches, and orcs on steroids!!!

DM: You are right, you earned a fate point, but while pondering your future and in deep thought you fell down a 90' shaft.

ME: (somewhat dejected) Can I use the fate point, now?

DM: Sure, you mange to land in some soft mud and only sustain 2 hp of damage

ME: yippee!!!

DM: too bad that you fell into lair of trolls, awoke all 17 of them, and broke all your oil and acid flasks in your fall!

ME: oh ****. Time to rolll up a new character!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[rabindranath72]

A definitely better way to handle Destiny/Fate is described in the Sorcerer & Sword supplement (among with other "tricks").

 

[Supplement Four]

A definitely better way to handle Destiny/Fate is described in the Sorcerer & Sword supplement (among with other "tricks").

Got a link or a publisher for that book? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. Maybe reading a review or two.

 

[Supplement Four]

A definitely better way to handle Destiny/Fate is described in the Sorcerer & Sword supplement (among with other "tricks").

Got a link or a publisher for that book? I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. Maybe reading a review or two.

EDIT: Nevermind! I found it!

 

[Supplement Four]

Here's how I'm considering changing the Fate Point System:



When a character is created, he will be given a new stat, called, simply, Fate. This is generated just like the other six stats by rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest die.

Whenever a player likes, he can attempt to tempt fate. Tempting the fates indicates, mechanically, that he is going to roll a d20, trying to obtain his Fate score or less. If he is successful, then the result will as if he spent a Fate Point in the normal game (same results). If the roll is higher than his Fate score, then the game will resume as if a Fate Point was not spent.

On this throw, a natural 20 always fails, regardless of the Fate score (so, a character can never be 100% sure that the Fates are on his side).

Either way, any time a character Tempts the Fates (makes a check vs. his Fate score), his Fate score is lowered by one point, regardless if the attempt was successful or not.



For example:

Braga, the Cimmerian, has been reduced to -7 hp and soon bleeds out to -10. But, the player decides to tempt the fates and see if the character can be Left For Dead (instead of dying).

In this case, the character really has nothing to lose. But, in the normal game, this would be a given if the character had any Fate Points. Under this method, the Fate Roll is made. The character's Fate score is 16. A d20 is thrown, resulting in a 10. The Fates smile on this character, and he is left for dead.

Braga's Fate Score is reduced to 15.



Increasing a character's Fate Score happens just like it does in the Vanilla game (I'm not using the Foreshadowing rules, but the alternate rules for Fate Points awarded for heroic actions or goal completion).



As soon as the character is created, the player is faced with his first decision as to whether to Tempt the Fates, or not. The 2E Rule Book says to roll stats using 4d6, dropping lowest die, and either assign those numbers to stats as rolled or allow the player to arrange the stats to taste.

Well, I'm thinking of making the default be the first option: You roll what you get--no arrangement.

If the player desires, he can tempt the fates by rolling against this Fate Score. If he fails, the player cannot arrage his stats to taste. If he succeeds, the player is allowed to arrage all of his stats to taste, including his Fate Score (which has been reduced by one point due to the testing of the fates).

In the game, Fate will function as I've described above.

I'm considering allowing Fate to either be a choice, or increase automatically, each time the character has a stat increase (either the Fate score increases with one of the stats, or the player can choose to increase Fate instead of a stat).

 

[Spectator]

S4, good concept about the rolling.

I have always looked at "unintended consequences" of actions/ proposals.

The beauty of the 1ed fate (remember I don't play 2nd Ed) is that if you spend a precious fate point SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.
The problem with your proposed system is that SOMETHING may HAPPEN.

The unintended consequence is that your PCs may not jump into the pit with the SON OF SET to save the princess if their fate attribute is under 10, because they will have less than a 50% chance of SOMETHING that may HAPPEN.
Whereas, if my old school guys jumps in w/ 2 fate points he's kind assured of at least being alive at the end of the ordeal ( you know he may beat a poison/fortitude check and may get a crit dmg on the snake, kinda thing, or whatever....)

I'm just saying, that if you put that regime in, I think your players may be LESS heroic. and that = more boring.

 

[Supplement Four]

The problem with your proposed system is that SOMETHING may HAPPEN.

That's the idea. I don't like it when Fate points/Character Points/Luck Points allow give a player a 100% chance of pulling something off.

So, using the Fate roll here, under what I've propose, is never sure.

The unintended consequence is that your PCs may not jump into the pit with the SON OF SET to save the princess if their fate attribute is under 10, because they will have less than a 50% chance of SOMETHING that may HAPPEN.
Whereas, if my old school guys jumps in w/ 2 fate points he's kind assured of at least being alive at the end of the ordeal ( you know he may beat a poison/fortitude check and may get a crit dmg on the snake, kinda thing, or whatever....)

I'm just saying, that if you put that regime in, I think your players may be LESS heroic. and that = more boring.

If a player in my game has his character jump into a pit with a Son of Set, but has a 100% chance of surviving because of Fate Point use...I really don't find that heroic at all. Sure, the action looks heroic, but it's kinda like the star of your favorite weekly action TV show. You know he's not going to die. There's no real risk there. In an rpg, I don't find that thrilling--I find it a bit boring.

Removing that cushion out from under the PCs is the entire idea here. The Fates are skewed towards the players, because they get to choose when to roll and what not. But, there's still real risk there. A player, under my system, jumping into a pit with a Son of Set is really risking something.

And, therefore, the game is that much more thrilling--the character really is being heroic.



Also, the side benefit to my system is that a few Fate Points don't run out. Under vanilla Conan, you start the game with 3 Fate Points. That's 3 x 100% success and then 0% success.

Under my system, if a character has a Fate score of 7, he's still got a shot! And, it might be damn amazing when the player rolls, and all look down at the table to see the 6 staring at us--pulling off Fate!

 

[Supplement Four]

OK, I've refined the idea a bit. Instead of Fate Points, I'm going to use this mechanic in my game:



At character creation (and only for PCs), a seventh stat is rolled (using 4D6, drop lowest, just like the other attributes).

FATE: 4D6, drop lowest

When a character would use a Fate Point in the vanilla game, the player is allowed to throw for Fate in my game.

TO TEST FATE = THROW D20 FOR FATE OR LESS, MODIFIED BY CHARISMA.

So, if a character has a Fate score of 13, he throws 13 or less on the d20 for success. A roll of 14 or better is a failure.

A Natural 1 always succeeds. A Natural 20 always fails.

Characters may tempt fate any number of times (Player's discretion), but each tempt costs a point from the Fate Pool. So that score of 13, above, will be 12 the next time Fate is tested.

And, all Fate throws are modified by CHR. Thus, if a character has CHR 14, then that Fate score of 13 above is modified to a 15 before the test is made.

The results of a successful Test of Fate is the same as spending a Fate Point in the vanilla game. A failed Test of Fate means that no special Fate effects occur, but a player may test Fate several times, losing a point off his total at each test.

Thus, if Fate is really needed, it is almost guarranteed that the player will have Fate on his side, but this guarrantee diminishes the more the character tests his own fate.

The Fate score can be increased using the same methods as gaining a Fate Point in the vanilla game (In my game, I will be using the heroic method, not the foreshadowing method).




So, let's look at an example:

Drachena has a Fate score of FAT 13. Her Charisma is CHR 12.

Her Charisma modifies her fate score by a +1, thus she has an effect score of FAT 14 when she makes a Test of Fate.

During a combat, Drachena is grieviously wounded, and her player wishes Fate to step in with the Left for Dead option.

She throws a d20 against her FAT, which results in a throw of 17. The Fates are not with her. The throw is not successful (she needed a 14- to succeed).

But, a player may Test Fate as many times as they like. But, the cost is the FAT score lowered by 1 point for each attempt.

Since Drachena's player doesn't want her character to die, she Tempts Fate again, this time throwing a natural 20. Natural 20's are automatic failures, so, again, the Fates do not answer Drachena's call.

Now, Drachena's player makes a third attempt. Her Fate score has been reduced to FAT 11, due to the two previous attempts, but her Charisma score still modifies that favorably by 1 point. She has to throw a 12 or less on a d20 to satisfy the Fates. She throws a 10. The thirst of the Fates is quenched, and Drachena is Left for Dead.

If Drachena is found by her Clansmen and revived, her Fate score will be FAT 10.

In effect, it cost her 3 points off her Fate score to be Left for Dead.

Each time we test fate, the Fates aren't as forgiving--the more we ask, the more they require.

Drachena can restore or increase her Fate score using the normal method.




I like how this method is not too harsh on PCs, but can be if a player Tempts Fate too often. I also like how this mechanic makes Charisma, a typical dump stat for most Conan classes, very important to the player.

I also like how a character who Tempts the Fates a lot, but is never heroic, will eventually run out of luck--just like in the stories.



GMs may rule, on appropriate occasions, that the number of times Fate can be tested in a certain circumstance is limited.

For example, during character generation, I have PCs throw 4D6, drop lowest, for each stat. Arrangement to taste is not allowed unless a Test of Fate is made, and this can only be attempted once. If the Fates are with them, then the player is allowed to arrange the stats to taste. If not, then the character stands as rolled.

 

[Vambelte]

I don't like this system, maybe it's because I really like the fate points the way I use them.

I just don't get attached to set of "possible uses" for a fate point. I like to say: "Hey you faild on that very important test, but you can spend a fate point to be sucessful instead."

Of course this use of fate points make them very valuable, and for that reasom a give fate points very rarely, like on my last campaing where the players got just 3 extra fate points over 2 years of gaming.

 

[Supplement Four]

I like to say: "Hey you faild on that very important test, but you can spend a fate point to be sucessful instead."

Which is exactly what I was trying to get away from--the notion that a player is 100% covered. I was trying to make players benefit from Fate, but it not be automatic. The simple fact that a player can attempt a Test of Fate gives his character a big advantage over the NPCs.





What I'm chewing on now is the question of how many times I should allow further throws if a failure is made.

Should I allow unlimited re-tries? If I do, the system isn't that far off from the vanilla Fate Point system. You roll until you win, but the cost i that you're spending points on each throw--points that are hard to recover. The effect is almost the same as the vanilla system--except that the cost is variable depending on the throw.



Should a Test only occur once per situation? This would serve my objective, but may be a bit too tough for the game. I do want to keep the PC's alive in this very dangerous game.



Alternatively, I could limit Test throws given a situation. If it's a life or death situation, then I could allow unlimited throws (as for throwing for the Left For Dead result). But, when throwing for non-death results (as with re-rolling an attack throw), only one try is allowed.



Or, should it be some type of scaled cost? Let's say the first try costs you a point. The second try costs you 3 points. The third try costs you 5 points. The fourth costs 11 points. And, the fifith costs you whatever you have left. Using this method, players are sure to have success in death-type situations, but they may think the cost is too high when Testing Fate under other non-death circumstances.



Just eyeballing this...I like the last two options.

 

[Supplement Four]

Just eyeballing this...I like the last two options.

I'm attracted to the idea of using Prime Numbers or something like this as cost: 1, 3, 7, 11.

And, I think since the cost juts up in a steep curve that going with unlimited re-tries isn't a bad idea (unless otherwise specified, as with the Re-Roll Option for Fate Points).





Another thing I'm considering is allowing players to purchase Fate Points (remember, the points I'm talking about aren't the same ones used in the vanilla game) at a cost of 100XP per point.

And/Or, story goal awards, good role playing, excellent in-game ideas, and heroic actions could all yield Fate Points.