2E EA Fleet Question

[Sulfurdown]

For those working with the 2nd edition playtest/previews, is there any word on if the Earth Alliance fleet is going to keep it's three era fleets or be collapsed back down to an Earth Alliance fleet with In Service Dates (plus the Psi-Ops fleet)?

(I'm hoping for a single EA Fleet with possible additions of the Psi-Ops. It wasted a lot of space in the Armageddon rules reprinting ship stats when several ships appear across all fleets and in general I much prefer to use ISD to provide availability.)

 

[captainsmirk]

According to the preview in S&P the EA fleet will remain split in three, but some ships will have different stats dependent on what list they comes from, Nova's have lots of plasma cannons in the Early EA list, changing to pulse cannons during Thrird Age being the example mentioned.


Nick

 

[Greg Smith]

Yes, EA will remain split.

 

[phoenixhawk]

I've always thought that a ship like the Hyperion should be represented at different levels throughout it's career. Like early on it is the primary ship-of-the-line, so it should be a little higher, but have better stats, like maybe an extra AD or two. Then it drops after the Omegas arrive to a sort of second-line ship, so maybe one PL lower and less potent weapons and then in Crusade era it should be even lower as by then it has become a very common ship that can hold its own against small ships but totally outclassed by the ships-of-the-line of the day. I always thought that part of the PL mechanic was the "rarity" of the ship, as well as the stats, hence why stuff like fighters are patrol while bigger battleships like the Warlock are so much higher. there simply aren't as many of them and hence they are more rare and higher PL.

Just my thought.

Chris

 

[tneva82]

Then it drops after the Omegas arrive to a sort of second-line ship, so maybe one PL lower and less potent weapons

This doesn't make sense. Why would their weapons be DOWNGRADED? If anything they should(and did) improve...

Also priority levels should(and are) determined by power level only.

 

[emperorpenguin]

I agree IMO that should be how its done.

Personally I'd like to see three eras for the game, not just the EA fleet

 

[MustEatBrains]

Basically a sound idea, but there is no real reason for a ship to be downgraded with weaker weapons when it get´s older - the ships around it tend to get better instead (which is represented by ships of higher PLs in the later EA lists).

However, maybe a ship like the Hyperion (which I love, both in the series and in the game), should maybe get more variants over the course of time, of which some might be on lower levels. At least in 3rd age, I´d suspect that the venerable Hyperion has experienced many different upgrades and field repairs - in the Crusade era, there could be less variants again, representing the ship class itself to become less numerous as more and more of the old ships are taken out of service one way or another...

 

[Bubbalo]

This doesn't make sense. Why would their weapons be DOWNGRADED? If anything they should(and did) improve...

Actually, I'd see it not as those weapons being downgraded, but rather not upgraded, whilst other races are strapping bigger and better weapons on their hulls as time goes on.

 

[H]

the problem with that is that obviously some fleets suffer quite heavily and need a heck of a lot of either new ships, new varients, or earlier ISD's.

the centauri and Minbari are in the best position as they have ships that can be a 100 years old anyway, The narn would need a newer fleet (whats that? someone has already developed one? gosh so i have ;-) )
and some of the league races would have very little to choose from. In a dilgar war scenario for example, the Brakiri have I think the ikorta (but again, Rich Bax's fine work has developed a Brakiri fleet for this period)

In all honesty, i would just prefer to use ISD's. we all know from real life that ships carry on well past their alleged end date to fill in minor gaps, delays in future developments and such, the Canberra for example would be a 1960's era craft, but they carried on well past that

 

[H]

This doesn't make sense. Why would their weapons be DOWNGRADED? If anything they should(and did) improve...

Actually, I'd see it not as those weapons being downgraded, but rather not upgraded, whilst other races are strapping bigger and better weapons on their hulls as time goes on.

which is why those bigger better weapons make bigger better ships, and therefore a higher priority than the Hyperion

 

[emperorpenguin]

No I think he is spot on, newer ships get better guns and armour

look at the difference between tanks in 1940 and 1945 for instance

Flames of War changes the points cost to compensate

 

[Burger]

Actually, I'd see it not as those weapons being downgraded, but rather not upgraded, whilst other races are strapping bigger and better weapons on their hulls as time goes on.

But 99% of people don't use ISD's. So the 3 EA fleets should be viewed (and balanced) as just 3 different fleet lists, not the same race evolving over time.

 

[tneva82]

This doesn't make sense. Why would their weapons be DOWNGRADED? If anything they should(and did) improve...

Actually, I'd see it not as those weapons being downgraded, but rather not upgraded, whilst other races are strapping bigger and better weapons on their hulls as time goes on.

Which would be represented by newer ships having bigger and better guns. So Hyperion stats would remain unchanged.

Except they too get weapon upgrades(like the heavy laser circa 2260). Heck even now we have vechiles receive upgrades to older models to keep them around in usefull manner. Certainly no country degrades weapons/armour/speed/whatever of their tanks just because they are getting older

 

[Sulfurdown]

But 99% of people don't use ISD's. So the 3 EA fleets should be viewed (and balanced) as just 3 different fleet lists, not the same race evolving over time.

That right there drives me nuts. Earth Alliance is one continuous military establishment that made advancements based on it's predecessors and foreign aid. They should be scaled in one continuum. If anything I'd rather see more End service dates then fractured fleets and people can use the ISD.

 

[tneva82]

and people can use the ISD.

But people WON'T use the ISD.

 

[katadder]

but people still wont use the ISDs and you will end up with only certain ships from the 3 eras being used.
warlocks supoprted by marathons supported by novas (with plasma) supported by sagis and chronos.

 

[Hash]

Newer ships (or other military platforms for that matter) aren't necessarily *any* better than older models - rather, the newer platform is designed with the technology and resources available at the time...which are usually superior...not always.

Even assuming superior technology has been developed (or alternatively existing technology has been miniaturised allowing more weapons per power unit etc) that doesn't mean that the designer *would* use them. It depends on the military doctrine of the time.

i.e. do you focus on building a bigger, better (and undoubtebly more expensive) ship or faster less armoured (but perhaps stealthier) ship or even abandon ship development altogether and focus on using cheap defensive platforms such as mines or even expensive unmanned patrol craft? Undoubtedly all of these choices have a development cost and military effect...it's about what's most cost-effective, not necessarily bigger and badder

Saying that guys it's just a game - what Burger said is right, the timeline fluff is all well and good but it's also got to play as a balanced game

 

[Bubbalo]

Actually, I'd see it not as those weapons being downgraded, but rather not upgraded, whilst other races are strapping bigger and better weapons on their hulls as time goes on.

But 99% of people don't use ISD's. So the 3 EA fleets should be viewed (and balanced) as just 3 different fleet lists, not the same race evolving over time.

Exactly. And the reason that a 3rd Hyperion is different to a Crusade Hyprion in reality is for game balance, and in game is because the lower attack dice represents the fact that a Crusade Hyperion's foes have better armour.

 

[Bubbalo]

Which would be represented by newer ships having bigger and better guns. So Hyperion stats would remain unchanged.

Which means that each fleet needs to have three different eras.

 

[H]

but people still wont use the ISDs and you will end up with only certain ships from the 3 eras being used.
warlocks supoprted by marathons supported by novas (with plasma) supported by sagis and chronos.

indeed, I wish people would play ISD's, one of the problems of course is that you rule out the chances of using the Dilgar versus the drakh, the drak versus early ea and suchlike. It's not hard to add an ISD in a campaign, the problem of course comes in tourneys.