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 Post subject: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:08 pm 
Shrew

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:01 pm
Posts: 15
I have a couple of questions regarding some of the less clear rules for NA:

1) We interpreted the 'triggering event' in the Gatling Laser rules as every instance a weapon generates a hit, e.g. if your al-Malik Moriah Cruiser scores four torpedo hits on my Grigori Cruiser then you roll nine dice vs these AD if your ship has three lasers. Since the gats are looking for sixes against torpedoes, this didn't seem harsh. Can you then apply the same lasers against the Moriah's next torpedo turret, its broadside of rockets, or indeed against any other ordnance-style weapon being fired into their arc? I know they respond separately vs grapple lines, fighters and boarding troops. This rule is not clear in the book but is critical for al-Malik players.

2) It states very clearly in the rulebook that you cannot fire on one of your own ships at any time, but does that include when it is taken in a boarding action? Otherwise your opponent can from then on use a ship you can no longer fire upon.

3) Also on boarding actions, the rules state that a grappled ship can fire on the ship that is grappling it up to the point that the ships are drawn together. However some players then state that after that point, neither ship can be fired upon. If this is the case, then both ships simply sit in the middle of a battle while the boarding action takes place. Is this correct? In the 'Weird Situations' section of the rulebook it's acknowledged that the attacking ship could be rammed by an enemy ship during the action, so why not fired upon?

I know the Fading Suns universe very well and understand why a captain would be reluctant to destroy any ship, but that logic can only be taken so far. As I've seen them played, the boarding actions favour the Hazat rather heavily as they seem to get a lot of marauders as standard. I haven't played against all of the factions, however.

The folk I play with come up with all kinds of in-universe explanations as to why a certain rule should favour them (one player who favours boarding actions insists #3 above is true for any of several reasons). I think there may be some carry-over from the B5 version of the game, which I have not played.


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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:24 pm 
Warlord Mongoose

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:58 am
Posts: 8798
Location: Kettering UK
krs_sven wrote:

1) We interpreted the 'triggering event' in the Gatling Laser rules as every instance a weapon generates a hit, e.g. if your al-Malik Moriah Cruiser scores four torpedo hits on my Grigori Cruiser then you roll nine dice vs these AD if your ship has three lasers. Since the gats are looking for sixes against torpedoes, this didn't seem harsh. Can you then apply the same lasers against the Moriah's next torpedo turret, its broadside of rockets, or indeed against any other ordnance-style weapon being fired into their arc? I know they respond separately vs grapple lines, fighters and boarding troops. This rule is not clear in the book but is critical for al-Malik players.


Yes. The gatling lasers fire against every attack.

Quote:
2) It states very clearly in the rulebook that you cannot fire on one of your own ships at any time, but does that include when it is taken in a boarding action? Otherwise your opponent can from then on use a ship you can no longer fire upon.


Once they are captured they belong to the enemy. Shoot away.

Quote:
3) Also on boarding actions, the rules state that a grappled ship can fire on the ship that is grappling it up to the point that the ships are drawn together. However some players then state that after that point, neither ship can be fired upon. If this is the case, then both ships simply sit in the middle of a battle while the boarding action takes place. Is this correct? In the 'Weird Situations' section of the rulebook it's acknowledged that the attacking ship could be rammed by an enemy ship during the action, so why not fired upon?


Both ships can be fired upon. There is nothing preventing it.

Quote:
As I've seen them played, the boarding actions favour the Hazat rather heavily as they seem to get a lot of marauders as standard.


Yes, Hazat do get a lot of marauders. They do pay for them - their Galliot costs more. But other houses can buy marauders. And when the fleet book eventually arrives, it will offer rules for other types of troops.

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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:21 pm 
Shrew

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:47 pm
Posts: 10
The Gatling Laser question has already been answered further down the page ( a post called - NA Gatling laser questions). The conclusion of the post is that each Gatling Laser can fire once in each of its modes. Once against weapons fire, once against fighters and once against boaeding lines.

The rules for boarding are clear in the book. Boarding does not prevent either of the ships firing, except thru the arc they are grappled in. The only time a ship can fire into an are that it is grappled in, is when the grapple lines are first fired and before the ships are moved together.


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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:14 pm 
Shrew

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:01 pm
Posts: 15
I get the boarding rules, that wasn't the problem. Say there are two opposing fleets. I grapple one of your ships, which can of course still fire until they are drawn together. The issue is whether, once the two are drawn together, one of your ships can then fire on the grappling ship. There is nothing in the rules that says you cannot, since as I mentioned below, it came up in playtesting whether you could in fact ram the grappling ship (you can). If you can ram it, there's no reason you can't shoot it.

Unfortunately the two clarifications are different for Gatling Lasers. I don't mind which it is, I'd just like to get it right :-)


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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:51 pm 
Banded Mongoose

Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:31 pm
Posts: 259
You want to read this thread, where I already beat the "gatling lasers do what now?" subject to death:

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=47453

They're much, much weaker against weapons fire than you've probably been playing them, and it seems to be an extremely common mistake due to counter-intuitive wording in the rulesbook. Al Malik is not, in fact, completely hosed when facing a large number of zappers, although they do dilute your firepower a bit. The situation will probably get worse when the escorts arrive in the long-delayed fleet book, but hopefully they playtested adequately and didn't overpower them on us.


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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:08 pm 
Shrew

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:01 pm
Posts: 15
Yeah, I reckon that puts it to bed for now. It'll be interesting when the fleet escorts turn up, how they'll affect things.


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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:00 pm 
Warlord Mongoose

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:58 am
Posts: 8798
Location: Kettering UK
I did a search for 'gatling' and it didn't turn up that thread. :x

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Part-time Narn.

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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:18 pm 
Banded Mongoose

Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:31 pm
Posts: 259
Well, I did know what I was looking for, for obvious reasons. Just hunted for my screen name while i was scrolling down. :)


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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:00 pm 
Shrew

Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:52 pm
Posts: 21
Quote:
3) Also on boarding actions, the rules state that a grappled ship can fire on the ship that is grappling it up to the point that the ships are drawn together. However some players then state that after that point, neither ship can be fired upon. If this is the case, then both ships simply sit in the middle of a battle while the boarding action takes place. Is this correct? In the 'Weird Situations' section of the rulebook it's acknowledged that the attacking ship could be rammed by an enemy ship during the action, so why not fired upon?

Both ships can be fired upon. There is nothing preventing it.


I understand that both ships can be fired upon but lets say a friendly Destroyer is being grappled by a Galliot from its port side, and has a friendly frigate on its starboard side. Can the Frigate fire upon the Galliot?

My assumption is no, the Galliot and the Destroyer are so close together that the Frigate would have to fire through his own destroyer in order to hit the galliot. It would be different if the frigate were on the port side or had a clean line of sight, but in this case...

Plus doesn't it make boarding a little rediculas to even attempt if the other ships can just fire on the vessels when they are in the middle of a grapple?
i. e. " i am going to grapple and take your ship...nope every ship in the enemy fleet just focus fired upon and destroyed my galliot while attached to a destroyer"


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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:14 pm 
Shrew

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:01 pm
Posts: 15
My assumption would be yes, you can fire at said Galliot as it is stated in the rules somewhere that no ship blocks LOS to another unless you're trying to ram. This would be to reflect the three-dimensional nature of a space battle. However grappling might alter this rule, so we'd need Word of God on this. Any clarification from the writers welcome!

I personally think Galliots could have been hull 5 as you can shoot them up quite a lot as they approach and they can't do much about it. You'd have to go for Close Blast Doors or All Hands on Deck and hope the enemy don't cripple them. They do tend to be faster and more maneuvrable on average. Galliots are designed for the hard task of getting marines onto other ships and fare better in groups. If there are enough of them and you get your movement right, enough will make it to the target ship to at least make a go at taking it. If you like boarding as a tactic, I'm told the Vuldrok fleet is geared more toward it.

The converse is even more ridiculous: that all a Galliot has to do is grapple, after which point it somehow cannot be targeted until the boarding action is resolved. If the Galliot gets its troops onto the enemy ship then its job is done; they don't really have the hull or damage to withdraw again. Your other ships have to be nearby to prevent the enemy fleet destroying them (by giving them a host of targets). An alternative is to take them as distractions from your main game plan, hoping your opponent takes the bait and worries about the Galliots rather than your main force.

They do seem very difficult to use successfully (but then I play Decados and our Galliots aren't that great; though we do get the Nightwing Stealthship as a sort-of stealth Galliot, they are hull 3 and even less likely to survive a pummeling).


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 Post subject: Re: ACTA: NA query on gatling lasers / boarding actions
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:18 pm 
Shrew

Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:52 pm
Posts: 21
We decided that the ship counts as line of sight, but only when they are grappled. That is until we get " official" word on this. So far it has only been an issue once. Kind of a weird situation that has only happened once. And the book is really no help at all with the confusing way some of the rules are written.


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