Playtesting - Powers and Principalities

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Playtesting - Powers and Principalities

Postby msprange » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:29 pm

Hi guys,

After talking it over with the Five Good Men, we have decided to try another approach with playtesting of CTA. . .

We are going to get you chaps to do it :)

Seriously, take a trip to the following link;

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/pdf/c ... est1.0.zip

And you will find several files currently in the draft for P&P (we will update these files every few days).

Have a read, have a play, and enjoy. Just one ground rule (for now);

This thread should be used for playtest comments - comments that arise from actually _playing_, not acting the armchair general!

General discussion and opinion of the rules is fine and indeed welcome, but please create new threads to do it. We need to be able to concentrate on playtest data, and not risk losing it in a wave of debate!

If this works out, we may do the same for BF Evo and Victory at Sea!
Last edited by msprange on Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Davesaint » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:24 pm

Matt,

Some initial thoughts. I will see how some games go to validate.


Fleet Command -

Abbai
Bimith Change - Good!!!
Deploy Mines - I am hot and cold about this. Not sure if on a philosophy basis that I want to see more mines in the game.
Divert Aux Power to Shields - Good!!! Needs to be automatic to be worthwhile

Brakiri -
Gavitic Shifters - Don't Like it. I don't like increasing the number of criticals in the game.


Centauri -
Demos - Good Change!
Hunting Packs - Initial thoughts are 6 ships are too many for the squadron. This will need some significant playtesting

Dilgar -
Alpha Strike - I don't like the automatic -6 effect on the 2nd critical. too many chances for adrift or non-funtional ships. If you use an Ochlavita Ki in this formation it only is an 8 CQ Check. Plus, only the lead ship needs to make the check, which means it's compatriots can CAF. :shock:

Drakh -
Amu - Ok with Hull 4
Critical Systems Defense - Not sure on this one. This is either too powerful, or a waste depending on who you are fighting.


Drazi -
Start Attack Run! - Like it, except I would get rid of the raming.
Fireraptor - Good Change

EA -
Bonehead Manoeuvre - Hate it. Get rid of it
Fusion Missle - Not sure. Will have to playtest it.


ISA -
High Energy Turns - Cool concept, not sure if they are needed. With agile and 2 90's, I have never had an issue getting my guns back on target.
Nial - Good Change
WS and WS2 - Ok with this change

Minbari -
Web of Death - Cool Change


Narn -
CBD - Too powerful. You are ignoring 50% of the damage and crew that you are taking! Think of what this will be like on a T'loth or a Katoc.
GQuan - Good Change
GVrahn - Good Changes, but might need to be toned down even a little bit more.

Pakmara - No love?

PsiCorps -
Nemeis - Good Change
Psychic Interrogations - ok on this change
Shadowfury - Good Change

Raiders -
Custom Ships - Good Change
Strike Carrier - Good Change

Shadows - All changes are good

Vorlons -
Regenerate - Like the SA.

Vree -
Xeel - Good change reducing to 4 AD. Was thinking you might want to give it Zorths as a assigned fighter, and make the Tzymm cost a patrol point as an upgrade.


New Rules -

Army of Light - Interesting, but might be too restrictive.

LONAW Fleet - Don't like that you are getting rid of this option. Need to fill out missing ships in the fleets if you are doing this, such as a carrier and a scout for the Pakmara.

Battles in hyperspace - I will need to look at this closer. Pakmara will never be able to fight this as they are a base -2 to their CQ check if they fire any weapons, and a -3 to their CQ check if they are crippled or skeletoned.

FAP List - Initial thoughts - Love it, but need to check out the drazi with them

Small Ships - Like the must squadron them, but it should be at any PL level, not just at Raid or higher

Fighter VP Changes - Good

Special Actions -
Maneuver to Shield them - Thank you for bringing this back!
Track That Target - Not bad, but would have preferred the reserving the turn for later version of this.


Space Stations - Kind of like the build your own station concept.

Dave
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Postby msprange » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:54 pm

>>>Deploy Mines - I am hot and cold about this. Not sure if on a philosophy basis that I want to see more mines in the game.

More mines. . ?

>>>Divert Aux Power to Shields - Good!!! Needs to be automatic to be worthwhile

We want to force Abbai players to make a choice, so this is not automatic.

>>>Hunting Packs - Initial thoughts are 6 ships are too many for the squadron. This will need some significant playtesting

Worth pointing out that this is a boon to make people reconsider swarm fleets - basically, they may still go for smaller ships, but they will at least lose the Initiative benefit.

>>>Alpha Strike - I don't like the automatic -6 effect on the 2nd critical. too many chances for adrift or non-funtional ships. If you use an Ochlavita Ki in this formation it only is an 8 CQ Check. Plus, only the lead ship needs to make the check, which means it's compatriots can CAF. :shock:

Legacy text from an old revision - the other ships in the formation will not be able to take other SAs. Also, consider the potential for wasted firepower.

>>>High Energy Turns - Cool concept, not sure if they are needed. With agile and 2 90's, I have never had an issue getting my guns back on target.

Me neither - this is more of a fluff thing, and it mimics what happens on screen.

>>>CBD - Too powerful. You are ignoring 50% of the damage and crew that you are taking! Think of what this will be like on a T'loth or a Katoc.

But then, that is kinda the point on those ships :) Needs further playtesting, certainly.

>>>Pakmara - No love?

Still knocking some ideas around for these chaps.

>>>Army of Light - Interesting, but might be too restrictive.

You should have seen the first draft :)

>>>LONAW Fleet - Don't like that you are getting rid of this option. Need to fill out missing ships in the fleets if you are doing this, such as a carrier and a scout for the Pakmara.

I disagree on this point - some fleets should certainly be lacking in certain areas. The pak'ma'ra are just not fighters!

>>>Small Ships - Like the must squadron them, but it should be at any PL level, not just at Raid or higher

This has been raised before - however, in smaller games, it is perfectly reasonable for smaller ships to 'come into their own', and I would be hesitant about restricting them in that way. It makes sense in bigger battles though.
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Postby lastbesthope » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:01 pm

msprange wrote:>>>Army of Light - Interesting, but might be too restrictive.

You should have seen the first draft :)
I'd agree with DaveSaint, so if I only use the ISA and one other fleet, I can have a maximum of 4 ships in total, 2 from each fleet.

It forces you to use a hodge podge of fleets to play with a lot of ships.

And of course it's massively disproved by on screen evidence :lol:

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Postby silashand » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:14 pm

Just wanted to second the dislike of removing the LONAW fleet legality. Mixing those fleets are the only reason I own them as I'm not really interested in playing any one of them separately (except maybe Pak'Ma'Ra).

FWIW, the AoL concept just doesn't seem to match the canon except for the one battle at Corianna 6, not to mention that I think the ship restrictions are far too severe. Good idea perhaps, but it needs a lot of work to make it appealing to players.

Also, I think you left out a caveat from the Flights and Ships section. I seem to remember it was divide by 10 down to a minimum of 1, then add +2. As it stands now the minimum is reduced to just two instead of three. If that's intentional, fine, but I thought the previous version worked fine as well.

JMO...

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comments

Postby Dave G » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:32 pm

Brakiri -
Gavitic Shifters - Don't Like it. I don't like increasing the number of criticals in the game.
How about if they inflicted extra damage, but criticals? For example 1D6 per extra shifter?

Vree -
Xeel - Good change reducing to 4 AD. Was thinking you might want to give it Zorths as a assigned fighter, and make the Tzymm cost a patrol point as an upgrade.
Good as far as it goes, but I think something a bit more radical might be better.
I have playtested a variant of the Xeel, that my opponents have found both irritating to play against, and concede is more balanced than the current version.
Change 1: substitute shredders at 2AD for the cannon.
Change 2: increase the fighters to 6 flights, and allow 3 of them to be zorths or tzymm.
Change 3: add the carrier trait.

The overall effect is to emphasise the xeel as a small carrier, with limited short range fire power, and so distinct from the other vree ships while still in the same mould as the others.
The most effective tactic was to APTE until in amongst the enemy, and then start spraying fighters about while using truns and SM to steer clear of firepower.

I'd also reduce the Xaar, which I think is also overpowered, perhaps to hull 4, and replace the cannon with shredders here as well.

By the way I play the Vree.
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Re: comments

Postby Triggy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:15 pm

Dave G wrote:I'd also reduce the Xaar, which I think is also overpowered, perhaps to hull 4, and replace the cannon with shredders here as well.

By the way I play the Vree.
I suggested the Cannon to Shredders thing too, a few times now... it just feels right (as well as toning it down a little).
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Re: comments

Postby katadder » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:39 pm

Triggy wrote:
Dave G wrote:I'd also reduce the Xaar, which I think is also overpowered, perhaps to hull 4, and replace the cannon with shredders here as well.

By the way I play the Vree.
I suggested the Cannon to Shredders thing too, a few times now... it just feels right (as well as toning it down a little).
lol when? I would agree to this.
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Re: comments

Postby Triggy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:17 pm

katadder wrote:
Triggy wrote:
Dave G wrote:I'd also reduce the Xaar, which I think is also overpowered, perhaps to hull 4, and replace the cannon with shredders here as well.

By the way I play the Vree.
I suggested the Cannon to Shredders thing too, a few times now... it just feels right (as well as toning it down a little).
lol when? I would agree to this.
About three times, each of my main summary emails :P
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Postby Da Boss » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:06 am

Hate to contribute to the clutter but isn't this thread for playtest results :wink:
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Postby Lone Gunman » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:09 am

sorry :oops:
Last edited by Lone Gunman on Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playtesting - Powers and Principalities

Postby Burger » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:16 am

msprange wrote:Have a read, have a play, and enjoy. Just one ground rule (for now);

This thread should be used for playtest comments - comments that arise from actually _playing_, not acting the armchair general!
Oh well I give up... people seem to have ignored Mat's request completely.

LG yes thats right. But you don't get it for "free", you just get an advantage when splitting in certain ways. There are circumstances where it is better to buy 3 patrol ships than 1 skirmish and 2 patrol.
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Postby Narchy » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:53 pm

Matt:

Might it be a good idea to create a separate ACTA playtesting forum as the general ACTA discussion is getting a bit cluttered and it is making it a bit difficult to pick out the appropriate threads.
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Postby msprange » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:06 pm

Narchy wrote:Matt:

Might it be a good idea to create a separate ACTA playtesting forum as the general ACTA discussion is getting a bit cluttered and it is making it a bit difficult to pick out the appropriate threads.
Not a bad idea - we'll look into this.
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Postby lastbesthope » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:02 pm

Well I've spotted some typos and some requests for clarification, I'll email them to Mattt rather than clutter this here.

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Fusion Missiles...

Postby ATN082268 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:45 am

How many Attack Dice per Fusion Missile (both Anti-Ship and Anti-Planet) and how many per ship? Thanks.

Sincerely,

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Postby Greg Smith » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:43 am

They are missile variants, so the same as currently - ie a Marathon would have 4AD, while a Apollo could opt to swap any or all of F6, P8, S8, A2.
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Postby Greg Smith » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:46 pm

To bring this thread back to its stated intent, I'll copy this over from the Narn thread:
No. 1 Bear wrote: I just tested out the G'quan. 3 GQuan (standard) vs 3 Omegas (standard).

The game was very close, the extra damage really did help the GQuan in terms of survability. The gquans emines were useful however i can now see the reason why they remained OS.

I will explain the emines were used to remove some fighter but also to deal damage to the ships. However if the GQuan had gotten a SL emine i feel that it would have become a long range bombardement cruiser with a large beam on CBD every other turn a bit much really. The Gquans once firing their emines sat on CBD for pretty much the whole game just using their secondarys occasionally to clear out some loose fighters.

It was definately a better game than it would have been before, however the GQuan i dont feel needs long range SL emines. As it would just become a dag kar with a big laser and thats really tough.
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Postby No. 1 Bear » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:14 pm

Oh yeh i should have copied that.
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Postby lastbesthope » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:40 pm

Matt, just wondering if you got the email I sent you yesterday?

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