T5 vs Mongoose Traveler

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Mac V
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:52 pm

T5 vs Mongoose Traveler

Postby Mac V » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:28 pm

I recieved an email today that Traveler 5 is going to be available by Jan 31. Mongoose's Traveller is a subset of these rules, correct? So, what's going to be the difference between the two sets?
Allensh
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Mt. Pleasant, Michigan

Postby Allensh » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:05 am

I'm not sure if Mongoose Traveller is a "subset" of the T5 rules...its supposedly compatible but RTT is closer to CT and MT than T5 is.
At least from what I have seen :)

Allen
PaulB
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 8:26 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Postby PaulB » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 am

Getting that email sure confused me...

Paul
Marketeer and partner for the All Rolled Up gaming companion
Blogger on boreders
Author of numerous gaming supplements
GamerDude
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:36 am
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

Postby GamerDude » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:18 am

I've got stuff on T5 from the Far Future Enterprises site, and from http://www.traveller5.com

The document on T5 can be found at http://www.farfuture.net/T5moreinfo.pdf .

The relative portion of the document is:
FORMAT
We anticipate issuing an extensive initial CDROM version of T5 by Jan 31 totaling about 1000 pages.
Referee’s Manual. Based on comments and reactions to that material, we anticipate issuing the core of Traveller 5 as a 352 page hardcopy
Referee’s Manual containing the essential information required by the game master.

Mongoose
Meanwhile, Mongoose’s extensive distribution network and greater resources will enable them to produce Traveller… more adventures, more sourcebooks, more details for the OTU.

What’s The Distinction?
T5 is an ultimate set of rules than many players will not need or want. For those that do, it is a natural step up. Traveller is what most players and referees will buy in the stores, and use to play out adventuring and battles.
In looking at the docs from the Traveller5 website, the difference that jumped right out at me is that while Mongoose Traveller (MP-T) uses the classic 2d, 8+ to succeed, +DM good -DM bad mechanic of Classic Traveller, T5 uses a 'roll low" mechanic... -DM good and +DM bad.

From what else I've gotten from just a light scanning, it uses a variable amount of dice for certain things.

I've sent an email to the MP playtesting email address about the differences, but with both going to press for a Jan/Feb release, I don't know if there is going to be any reconciliation of these differences.
Al B. [B-)
Say what's that, a new game? M-U-S-T   B-U-Y G-A-M-E!

Image
The first, Since 9/2008, MGT-Aids@yahoogroups.com
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:20 pm
Location: Arlington, TX USA

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:28 pm

From some of the earlier posts when MonT was announced, I do not think there will be a reconciliation.

T5 will be an optional set of tools that a GM can use to give excruciating detail to whatever part of the game they want to.

Don't like the simple trade codes, don't worry, T5 has half-a-dozen variations of the Agricultural rating.

Want more detail in your laser carbine? T5 will offer Fire, Fusion and Steel (FF&S) level design details so you can customize that Solomani Laser Carbine to be different than the Imperial Carbine; by Tech Level.

I didn't get the impression that T5 is going to be a game so much as a very big and detailed tool box to "fill in the gaps" and offer alternate, more detailed ways to do what MonT will let you do with 2d6.
My friends call me Richard.
You can call me Sir.
SableWyvern
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 749
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby SableWyvern » Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:38 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:I didn't get the impression that T5 is going to be a game so much as a very big and detailed tool box to "fill in the gaps" and offer alternate, more detailed ways to do what MonT will let you do with 2d6.
That's also my impression. Sure, there probably is actually a game in there somewhere, but it looks like it's likely to be such an ugly, complicated mess that you'd be hard pressed to untangle it.

That said, I just made an impulsive decision to pre-order T5 anyway (and I'm not remotely a Traveller grognard). In amongst that 1,000 pages, there has to be some really good stuff I can steal and use in or adapt for a Mongoose Traveller game.
pasuuli
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 pm

Postby pasuuli » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:09 pm

ParanoidGamer wrote:I've got stuff on T5 from the Far Future Enterprises site, and from http://www.traveller5.com
Is that site still up? Isn't it like five years out of date?
pasuuli
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 pm

Postby pasuuli » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:26 pm

Looking at the PDF on Farfuture's site...

1,000 pages sounds... leggy? Verbose? What could possibly take 1,000 pages?
T5 is an ultimate set of rules than many players will not need or want.
What a way to promote the product. Huh, is that why Mongoose is also producing Traveller?
Characters will include the ability to create and play Humans, Sophonts (intelligent non-humans), and Artificials.
Chargen doesn't sound as exciting as the Mongoose playtest. What are "Artificials"? Oh, they're clones and robots, or something. So you can play a robot character? Marvin the Paranoid Android?

Sophonts - is this Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, and so on?

"The Senses" - sounds like a lot of work for not much gain?

"Personal interactions" sounds mildly interesting.

Starship design-by-deckplan sounds interesting. How would that work??


Doesn't sound like 1,000 pages, tho. Sounds more like 96 or so. Am I missing something?
SableWyvern
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 749
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 10:21 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Postby SableWyvern » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:48 pm

pasuuli wrote:What a way to promote the product.
Would you prefer they try and con you into believing you need it? What's wrong with some honesty in advertising?
Huh, is that why Mongoose is also producing Traveller?
To some extent, I'd say yes.
pasuuli
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 pm

Postby pasuuli » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:10 pm

SableWyvern wrote:
pasuuli wrote:What a way to promote the product.
Would you prefer they try and con you into believing you need it? What's wrong with some honesty in advertising?
Point taken. From what I've heard, there are things about T5 that grognards cannot like, so I guess it doesn't hurt to admit it.
Poi
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Postby Poi » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:14 pm

[cynic]
MonT will fall out of it's binding within 15 seconds
T5 wil be over complicated
[/cynic]

:twisted:
Poi

Honk if Pluto is a planet
pasuuli
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 pm

Postby pasuuli » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:20 pm

Poi wrote:[cynic]
MonT will fall out of it's binding within 15 seconds
T5 wil be over complicated
[/cynic]

:twisted:
Might not be cynical to say T5 will be complicated. Will it be playable?

Maybe it is more like a grab-bag of tools. But isn't it also supposed to be a game?
dmccoy1693
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1218
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 3:23 am
Location: South Jersey
Contact:

Postby dmccoy1693 » Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:31 pm

pasuuli wrote:Might not be cynical to say T5 will be complicated.
A 1000 page game sounds complicated. Until this, A Game of Thrones (about 500 pages) and Ptolus (about 675 pages) are the biggest single tome RPG books I've heard of.
pasuuli wrote:Will it be playable?

Maybe it is more like a grab-bag of tools. But isn't it also supposed to be a game?
It is suppose to be a complete game.
Order your print copy of the D66 Compendium 2 today.

Dale McCoy, Jr.
Jon Brazer Enterprises
pasuuli
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 pm

Postby pasuuli » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:39 pm

dmccoy1693 wrote: It is suppose to be a complete game.
Well then. Who could possibly wrap their brain around it?

Is it a cobbling together of 100 disparate modules, with nothing but the name "Traveller" in common?
AKAramis
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1440
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:57 am
Location: Eagle River, Alaska, USA
Contact:

Postby AKAramis » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:42 pm

pasuuli wrote:
dmccoy1693 wrote: It is suppose to be a complete game.
Well then. Who could possibly wrap their brain around it?

Is it a cobbling together of 100 disparate modules, with nothing but the name "Traveller" in common?
Mind you, last T5 draft material I saw was 9 months ago, but the "T5 Alien Race Generator" was 15 pages of random roll tables.

The "Small Craft Design System" was a font plus 5 pages for rating the resultant deck plans.

Character Generation was essentially the same as T4.
-AKAramis
==================================================
Never catch a tiger by the tail...
... unless it is sedated or dead.
==================================================
http://aramis.hostman.us
pasuuli
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:53 pm

Postby pasuuli » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:46 pm

AKAramis wrote:
pasuuli wrote:
dmccoy1693 wrote: It is suppose to be a complete game.
Well then. Who could possibly wrap their brain around it?

Is it a cobbling together of 100 disparate modules, with nothing but the name "Traveller" in common?
Mind you, last T5 draft material I saw was 9 months ago, but the "T5 Alien Race Generator" was 15 pages of random roll tables.

The "Small Craft Design System" was a font plus 5 pages for rating the resultant deck plans.

Character Generation was essentially the same as T4.
Doesn't sound like a game. Sounds like a collection of non-interacting-but-bulky tool-like things.
dmccoy1693
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1218
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 3:23 am
Location: South Jersey
Contact:

Postby dmccoy1693 » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:56 am

pasuuli wrote:Well then. Who could possibly wrap their brain around it?
From what I've read about previous versions of Traveller (some may be not entirely accurate, so long time traveller fans feel free to correct me), Marc Miller wanted a great deal of accuracy and realism in his games. He wants a game that would model realism greater then any current game (or version of Traveller) does. So doing things like having native life on a planet orbitting a white star is out.

Long time traveller fans, would you agree with that assessment?
Order your print copy of the D66 Compendium 2 today.

Dale McCoy, Jr.
Jon Brazer Enterprises
GamerDude
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:36 am
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

Postby GamerDude » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:59 am

pasuuli wrote:
ParanoidGamer wrote:I've got stuff on T5 from the Far Future Enterprises site, and from http://www.traveller5.com
Is that site still up? Isn't it like five years out of date?
at the bottom of the main page: Page modified: 12/20/2007 19:50:41

From the top page at http://www.farfuture.net, the MP-T and T5 are coming out at the same time
Traveller5
We are pleased to announce the pending publication of the preliminary edition of Traveller5 in CD ROM/ PDF format. This CD-ROM contains: the initial files for Traveller5 -- the fifth edition of Traveller. Each image and text PDF contains original page images and searchable text. All files are printable in whole or in part. Spreadsheets are Microsoft Excel format.

We plan to ship on or before January 31. But pre-order now and we'll send you the printed black DVD Traveller5Case Wrap (the same one that will be on your Traveller5 CD-ROM package when we ship it), plus four bonuses: our Mini-Map of the Spinward Marches, the Traders' Guild Guide to Starships, the mini-Traders' Guild Guide to Starships, and the Wilderness Traveller (800-ton Speculative Trader) 4-view.
To order or for more information, click here.
From the page where you order the CD-ROM ( http://www.farfuture.net/index3.html )
The Traveller5 CD-ROM

Traveller5
This CD-ROM contains the initial material for Traveller5, and is subject to change before publication in print form (including changes, fixes, and other details; the printed core rules book will contain less material overall).

On This CD-ROM: the initial files for Traveller5 -- the fifth edition of Traveller. Each image and text PDF contains original page images and searchable text. All files are printable in whole or in part. Spreadsheets are Microsoft Excel format. Fonts are TTF.

Character Generation... 13 different character types, plus rules for non-human sophonts, clones, chimeras, androids, and robots. Includes spreadsheet sophont creation.

Game Mechanics... the core task system, the skill list, details of dice and probabilities, plus an analysis of previous task systems.

Starships... design systems for small craft and starships, plus starship sensor rules and space combat. Includes font-based ship design.

Worlds... star system generation rules including homeworlds, mainworlds, gas giants, and the many other worlds in a system. Includes geodesic world mapping font.

Conflict... combat rules for the use of violence (including weapons across the tech levels), and personal interaction rules for lesser measures (bargaining, blackmail, persuasion, or even torture).

Trade and Commerce... systems for speculation in trade goods.

New Rules. New Concepts. New Background.

The Imperium... the Second Survey of the Imperium in PDF report format with supporting spreadsheet.

Plus: The History of the Imperium, and a host of supplemental material.
I've pre-orderd the CD-ROM to get all that nice juicy info. Purchase of the physical T5 books will be considered down the road. For MP-T I'll be getting it all!
Al B. [B-)
Say what's that, a new game? M-U-S-T   B-U-Y G-A-M-E!

Image
The first, Since 9/2008, MGT-Aids@yahoogroups.com
EDG
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2882
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:28 pm
Contact:

Postby EDG » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:34 am

dmccoy1693 wrote:From what I've read about previous versions of Traveller (some may be not entirely accurate, so long time traveller fans feel free to correct me), Marc Miller wanted a great deal of accuracy and realism in his games. He wants a game that would model realism greater then any current game (or version of Traveller) does. So doing things like having native life on a planet orbitting a white star is out.

Long time traveller fans, would you agree with that assessment?
I'd disagree. Marc wants a game full of obsessive, pointless detail that adds little to actual gameplay or even verisimilitude. Realism and accuracy are definitely NOT on his agenda.
captainjack23
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:22 pm

Postby captainjack23 » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:42 am

EDG wrote:
dmccoy1693 wrote:

Long time traveller fans, would you agree with that assessment?
I'd disagree. Marc wants a game full of obsessive, pointless detail that adds little to actual gameplay or even verisimilitude. Realism and accuracy are definitely NOT on his agenda.

Gosh. Big surprise. Really ? No ! I'm really Surprised at that.

You know, I really think that is what has been missing so far. More of Ganymede's comments about how he hates classic traveller and/or T5 and how Marc Miller is a nitwit. It will certainly help the playtest. Yup. More Miller Bashing. Yup.

Here's a thought. We get it. You don't like him. You don't like CT. You don't like t5. You don't like the UTM, you didn't like Mongooses merchandising approach OR the MTrav covers. Okay. If there's a traveller group where you haven't made that plain in, I am truly surprised. Thanks for sharing.

Please pay attention to this next bit: I don't like what I'm hearing either about T5, either and I hated the so-called playtest, and MWM is not someone I know or frankly care about, so this isn't (how do you put it ?) Brown nosing syncophancy, or frothing fanboyism. Get it ? We agree about these issues and you are still being annoyingly obsessive and tedious. Okay ?

Consider the possibility that that no-one here is going to assume you are now an ardent supporter of MWM and T5 if you fail to bring up your personal issues in every thread possible. Feel confident that you have made your stance plain and clear to even the densest casual reader of this and many other Traveller and RPG groups. Trust us that we believeyou are sincere in this matter. Get it ?

WE GET IT ! WE HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR, RECEIVING 4x4, SIGNAL IS CLEAR, CONFIDENCE IS HIGH:

EDG = ( NOT love (T5&Ct&MWM&MtravCovers&UTM&whatever))+++!!!!+++

So, can we move on ? More importantly, can you let us get on even if you can't get over it ?

Cap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 12 guests