Trepida Grav Tank

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paltrysum
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Trepida Grav Tank

Postby paltrysum » Wed May 27, 2020 5:45 pm

I'm working on an update of the Trepida grav tank for MgT2 and attempting to be true to canon. Based on the numbers from the Rebellion Sourcebook and the 101 Vehicles guides, it appears the tank might either be 10 or 13 tons of displacement. Please see the graphics below. The 101 Vehicles version lists 10 disp but the Rebellion Sourcebook version says disp 10 + 30% for the turret. With a little deeper research, I could drum up the MegaTraveller design sequences, but I thought I'd bring it here first for confirmation:

Image
Image

IIRC, the MT design sequence added the turret tonnage separately. In your opinions, should the Trepida displace 10 tons or 13?
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby steelbrok » Wed May 27, 2020 6:38 pm

In TNE's Regency Combat Vehicle Guide it was 10dte
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed May 27, 2020 6:51 pm

Yes the MT system added gun turrets as additional volume, so it should be 13 Dt.

But it is not very relevant, since the MgT2 vehicle design system does not deal with volume, but mass.

At 1 Space = ¼ tonne, a 125 tonne tank would be 500 Spaces, much too heavy to be practical I believe.

I would worry less about matching exact mass or volume, but about capability. The Trepida is a fairly light grav tank with curiously thin armour and a light auto-fire fusion gun.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed May 27, 2020 6:55 pm

Good question, and to complicate matters further, which one’s more important - size or capabilities?

Do you happen to have the stats for the standard G/carrier whose name I can’t currently recall? Especially size. For comparison.

Very much looking forward to what you end up with, curious to see what an imperial grav tank looks like!

The ones I know of are the one from VH and the Aslan - both of which are much larger than 10 dt (around the 30 mark)
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed May 27, 2020 7:28 pm

Annatar Giftbringer wrote: Do you happen to have the stats for the standard G/carrier whose name I can’t currently recall? Especially size. For comparison.
Astrin Grav APC (RS, p87): Same size (w/o turret), about same mass, same armour, same speed, about same cost.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Wed May 27, 2020 7:37 pm

Thanks.
So, depending on if the Astrin APC is closest to (digs out VH) Newpoint Grav APC (p.143) or Rakatama G/Carrier (p.145) somewhere around 12-15 dt might be about right for the Trepida?
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby NOLATrav » Wed May 27, 2020 7:50 pm

Great idea, paltrysum. Something fun to do while I’m watching the NASA launch, cheers!

Flipping thru VH and CSC, not seeing anything comparable to the main armament; doesn’t seem to be a rapid fire fusion gun available in MgT 2e. The Fusion Gun-Y is TL14 but has no Auto trait.

I think Rocket Pods (CSC, pg 133) could be used for the aerosols and sandcasters perhaps. And I’m looking hard at the Gatling Laser for the commander’s anti-personnel weapon (I know, not canon but seems like an oversight to me).

Man. A Heavy Grav chassis with the AFV and Streamlined traits gets EXPENSIVE fast! Yet still an Agility of -1, which seems counterintuitive to me.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby paltrysum » Wed May 27, 2020 8:35 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:51 pm
I would worry less about matching exact mass or volume, but about capability. The Trepida is a fairly light grav tank with curiously thin armour and a light auto-fire fusion gun.
Good advice. I want it to approach the same size as closely as possible to please the canon fans but also make it with a performance as close to that of the original Trepida as possible. This little design might well appear in published form if all goes well. :wink:
Annatar Giftbringer wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:37 pm
So, depending on if the Astrin APC is closest to (digs out VH) Newpoint Grav APC (p.143) or Rakatama G/Carrier (p.145) somewhere around 12-15 dt might be about right for the Trepida?
Definitely. I would love to squeeze it into 13 dt to make it 100% compliant with the MT version, but since the vehicle design systems aren't comparable, some fudge factor should be expected.
NOLATrav wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:50 pm
Flipping thru VH and CSC, not seeing anything comparable to the main armament; doesn’t seem to be a rapid fire fusion gun available in MgT 2e. The Fusion Gun-Y is TL14 but has no Auto trait.

I think Rocket Pods (CSC, pg 133) could be used for the aerosols and sandcasters perhaps. And I’m looking hard at the Gatling Laser for the commander’s anti-personnel weapon (I know, not canon but seems like an oversight to me).

Man. A Heavy Grav chassis with the AFV and Streamlined traits gets EXPENSIVE fast! Yet still an Agility of -1, which seems counterintuitive to me.
I think I might have to invent a new gun to try to match the one on the original Trepida. Something that extrapolates from MgT2's fusion Y-gun. It's all about balance.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby NOLATrav » Wed May 27, 2020 9:25 pm

Just realized the Gatling Laser is almost twice the tonnage of a Fusion Gun-Y. Never mind :oops:
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby Condottiere » Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 pm

Capabilities defined by supposed role(s); you can make something too small or too large.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed May 27, 2020 11:16 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote: I would worry less about matching exact mass or volume, but about capability. The Trepida is a fairly light grav tank with curiously thin armour and a light auto-fire fusion gun.
Thinking about it I have to say I was wrong. The armour and weapon are very reasonable choices.

The armour will protect against infantry weapons (FGMP) and hamper heavy weapons. To get better protection we would need very heavy armour, say the max of 75. Yet even then a marginally more expensive Fusion Z gun would penetrate just as well.


Too get the same protection against FGMPs a MgT2 tank would need 100-120 points of armour, i.e. fairly heavy armour.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed May 27, 2020 11:42 pm

First order approximation would be something like this:
40 Spaces
Armour 104
Fusion X gun
Image

Note that it has very limited range compared to the original, and no cargo space. It is still a bit large...
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby paltrysum » Thu May 28, 2020 4:55 pm

Looks like a great start. Was it difficult to squeeze into so few spaces?
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu May 28, 2020 6:03 pm

paltrysum wrote: Looks like a great start. Was it difficult to squeeze into so few spaces?
Not difficult, but requiring a bit of ruthlessness in eliminating not absolutely necessary components.


Using a giant loophole in the rules, we can specify a fusion power plant and 75% reduced fuel capacity, still leaving us with years of mission range. This actually gains us two Spaces at a cost of MCr 8:
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu May 28, 2020 6:15 pm

NOLATrav wrote: And I’m looking hard at the Gatling Laser for the commander’s anti-personnel weapon (I know, not canon but seems like an oversight to me).
The main gun is supposed to be auto-fire, and could, in MT, handle battle dress infantry with ease.

Unfortunately MgT doesn't have much in the way of rapid fire energy weapons. To get machine gun equivalents we have to look at auto-cannons or gauss cannons.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Thu May 28, 2020 7:27 pm

One simple way to create a rapid-firing plasma weapon would be to take a Gauss Cannon and load it with plasma ammo, but for fusion...? I dunno, we need new ammo or a new weapon :)

Should it be as powerful as the fusion XYZ gun? If so, how about say... doubling its mass and giving it auto 2 or 3?

Or perhaps trade blast for auto?
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu May 28, 2020 7:57 pm

Annatar Giftbringer wrote: Should it be as powerful as the fusion XYZ gun? If so, how about say... doubling its mass and giving it auto 2 or 3?

Or perhaps trade blast for auto?
If we compare the guns in MT, the rapid version is not bigger but higher TL and uses more power.

How about TL+1, mass×125%, price×125%, Auto 2+extra TL?

A Fusion RFX would become available at TL-14:
TL-14: 5 tonnes, MCr 2.5, Auto 2.
TL-15: 5 tonnes, MCr 2.5, Auto 3.
TL-16: 5 tonnes, MCr 2.5, Auto 4.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Thu May 28, 2020 8:08 pm

Sounds good to me! Looking through CSC there are even a few weapons types that get smaller as they evolve through the TLs and gain auto, but we’re talking several TLs there... (Cannon/autocannon for example)

And I just realized how amazingly terrifying a rapid-firing fusion weapon is - not just DD level damage, but a blast radius too! Damn... deploy those babies in squadrons, supported by FGMP marines and nothing will remain, just a glowing glass field...
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby Condottiere » Thu May 28, 2020 9:47 pm

Multi pulse laser.
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Re: Trepida Grav Tank

Postby NOLATrav » Thu May 28, 2020 10:11 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:15 pm
NOLATrav wrote: And I’m looking hard at the Gatling Laser for the commander’s anti-personnel weapon (I know, not canon but seems like an oversight to me).
The main gun is supposed to be auto-fire, and could, in MT, handle battle dress infantry with ease.

Unfortunately MgT doesn't have much in the way of rapid fire energy weapons. To get machine gun equivalents we have to look at auto-cannons or gauss cannons.
Being distracted by the NASA launch I later realized it was a silly suggestion as it’s not like a “fifty caliber laser machine gun” as I initially thought. And then I realized Prismatic Aerosol Dischargers and Smoke Dischargers are items already described and statted. No need to adapt Rocket Pods for something that already exists.

Lesson learned: dig a little deeper before I start shooting my mouth off ;)

Appreciate you guys going easy on me :)

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