TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby HalC » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:36 am

Hello Folks,
For those who have never been directed towards this web site - you want to go to

www.TravellerMap.com

Why is this a good resource? If you want to know the distance between two stars anywhere in the overall display of known space - it can do it for you. If you want to know the jump list of worlds that a ship has to travel through to reach a given destination - you can do so. It lets you copy the information to the clipboard even.

Next - you can download the the data directly to your computer in the form of a text file. These text files can then be loaded into excel spreadsheets EASILY.

Just recently, I explored how to view the data on stars listed in the First Survey, download the data to my computer, then download the Second Census information - then import the Census data side by side for DIRECT comparison.

One thing that struck me as a result of comparing that data was that for some worlds, the Star port class designation of "A" has been around for 1100+ years! That means that some of those star ports are ancient in terms of Human experience. Granted, they will likely rebuild star ports over time, some of the star ports would have been refurbished or renovated or left to degrade into shambles of their former glory.


In any event - by comparing/contrasting data on Corridor star ports, population value, and Population Modifiers - I was struck by the question "Why is there a world listed with having a larger population in year zero than it does in year 1105? The worst such population loss was for Shaniin/Corridor (hex 3225) which went from a pop 11 world to a Pop 7 world. There is a story in that right? ;)

In all? I started out trying to analyze the corridor data so I could see what a similar situation might might be for Deneb and/or Spinward Marches. My goal? To allow my players to enjoy a Milieu Zero campaign in which they are part of the historic Mora colonization effort. They wanted more Firefly than what Spinward Marches has become in the year 1105. Since most of the worlds don't have an Imperial Embassy, or even an Imperial XT line, the world gets personal right at the end of the gangplank. THAT is something they are going to have to get used to. Then again, being crew aboard a 1,500 dTon heavy freighter with 10 double laser turrets (plus sand casters) permits them to have a little more breathing space than they might otherwise have as crew of a 200 dTon hull.

In any event - just wanted to point out that www.travellermap.com has some pretty useful data available if you just know how to dig it out.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:16 am

I love going through the data from that site using my software. Find things I didn't know were in the Traveller Universe before.
paltrysum
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 724
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:16 pm
Contact:

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby paltrysum » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:18 am

Are you planning on having many of the worlds unpopulated? Does the IISS exist yet?
My published Traveller adventures on DriveThruRPG:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php ... %20Griffen
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby HalC » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:25 am

paltrysum wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:18 am
Are you planning on having many of the worlds unpopulated? Does the IISS exist yet?
If that question is directed at me - since it is the year 99, yes, I plan on having the IISS exist. When I looked at the data on the corridor sector, I found per the First Survey data, that there were quite a few un-populated worlds listed that would later become populated in 1105. Of the 267 star systems originally populated in 1105, year 0 sees 75 of them with a zero population.

Most of the population changes were to have the year zero worlds with less population - but not all. A few started out with a higher pop in year zero than they would have in year 1105. If this is an "error" (which I would have to check against the books to see if it is an error), so be it. If it is accurate, there is a story there where in the span of 1105 years, a world went from a high pop to a relatively low pop world.

I'm going to have to check the rules to see if it is possible to have a world with a pop value of B. If by the rules it isn't possible, it is likely a mistake.
paltrysum
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 724
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:16 pm
Contact:

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby paltrysum » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:40 pm

Since many of the Marches' worlds would not have been settled yet, the IISS might have named most of them using the six-digit naming convention that you see in some spots. E.g., 567-908 in hex 1031 of the sector. Home of the Shriekers and setting for Adventure 10: Safari Ship. There are several of those numerically named systems in the 1105 era. There might be a ton in the era you're creating!
My published Traveller adventures on DriveThruRPG:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php ... %20Griffen
Varulv
Stoat
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:16 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby Varulv » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:51 pm

TravellerMap is a fantastic resource and as a referee I use it a lot. It’s very convenient to be able to click on a system, get some details and then follow a link to the wiki page – which is another fantastic resource.

What I do not do is share this with my players. I think I could be brave (mature) enough to encourage my players to use TravellerMap, but I don’t like the idea that they roam around in the Traveller Wiki. Sure, most information is harmless but I think there are too many spoilers that they can stumble upon. And thus: No Traveller Wiki means No TravellerMap for my players.

I presume that the majority of the regular forum users are referees, so how do tackle this dilemma?
(HalC, I hope that I’m not hijacking your thread.)
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby HalC » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:23 pm

Varulv wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:51 pm
TravellerMap is a fantastic resource and as a referee I use it a lot. It’s very convenient to be able to click on a system, get some details and then follow a link to the wiki page – which is another fantastic resource.

What I do not do is share this with my players. I think I could be brave (mature) enough to encourage my players to use TravellerMap, but I don’t like the idea that they roam around in the Traveller Wiki. Sure, most information is harmless but I think there are too many spoilers that they can stumble upon. And thus: No Traveller Wiki means No TravellerMap for my players.

I presume that the majority of the regular forum users are referees, so how do tackle this dilemma?
(HalC, I hope that I’m not hijacking your thread.)
First - you're not hijacking the thread... Go in peace my son *teasing grin*. Just remember, if you're ever in Buffalo, you owe me a case of Vlandian Beer. ;)

That having been said?

This whole process for me has been to try and reconcile the data for Milieu Zero with 1105 data, and trying to determine what worlds are going to be what when it comes time for my players to visit them. That means, it matters not one whit whether they can see or not see the Wiki data.

But, let's pretend for a moment, that you're my GM and I'm your worst unruly player (Ok, short of being banned for being your worst unruly player!!!)

Me: Um, what Tech level is the world I'm on at?
You: TL 13.
Me: OH? GREAT! I'm going to buy a database that contains information on the various worlds that are nearby.
You: Ok, it will cost you 1,000 credits per world you want.
Me: Isn't that more than a month's income for someone on that world, per planet? If I buy it, how comprehensive is the data? Does it list all of the companies currently in existence? Will it give me the GWP (Gross World Product)? Will it have the basic information as such that I can find at the CIA WORLD FACTBOOK site?
You: Um, er - shaddup, you're banned from any future games...

Ok - short of resorting to banning me from future games, chances are, you might think "Ok, he has a point, the data isn't likely going to be exhaustive, and the Traveller Wiki data isn't as extensive as the material presented in the CIA world factbook material. My suggestion? Let the players have access to the Wiki. Here's why...

If they use the information presented there in an intelligent manner, they get the benefit of enjoying the effort they put into reading the material and drawing conclusions from. If you have plans to make use of the Wiki as a resource, you can always put a spin on the data so that they get an incomplete view of what the reality (as determined by the GM) is. If they get upset that you had a curve ball, the perfect answer will be "Let's see, the data you accessed was 2 years out of date and you got free access to it." Then throw in some things like "If you want the most up to date data, you need to go to the Traveller's Aid Society, where you can purchase the data you desire and have reasonable certainty that it is correct." That's when you bleed them for a nickle here, a nickle there, a dime here, a dollar there, etc. In fact? You could even craft an entire adventure where someone shows up saying "I hear you were on Adibicci recently, we'd like to purchase some information from you - all strictly legal of course." Nobody expects the Inquisition right? But think about the acronym for the Security teams sent from Adibicci - Adibicci Secret Police. ASP. Hmmm. That could be a GREAT seed for a campaign (such as one I ran for my group not too awful long ago...) That the players were involved with Imperial Nobility on Lunion (One was the daughter of a Baron of Lunion) just made it all the more fun.

My advice is this: Let the know it exists - just don't teach them how to use it. If they do learn, let them enjoy/savor what they learn. Once you know they are comfortable with it, introduce the issue of "how out of date is this information?" As for the other more "Secret stuff?"

Nothing keeps you to the line in using what is in the wiki as is. Some of the material isn't even really "sanctioned" in the sense that it was published material authorized by Marc Miller. If memory serves me right, some of the material is from the Landgrab back when the Traveller Mailing List existed.

If like me, you are influenced by GURPS material, I have a rule that I use where the minimum population value for a world with an A starport is 5. On worlds where the gravity/density values for such a world make it impossible to retain water vapor - such a world should not have ANY surface water - so my fix is to increase the diameter and/or density to where it can retain water vapor, let alone anything else. If the world has a breathable atmosphere, but zero surface water - that's when I change it to a non-desert world. Oxygen is one element that readily combines with other elements. Rust is oxidizing iron. Combustion is oxidizing carbon. Something has to replenish the free floating oxygen regularly or it gets tied up in "oxides" with other metals or silica or what have you.

So - nothing requires that you use the written material on the wiki as given. Touch it up, modify it, make it your own. Even using it unmodified means that you made the decision to use it as is.

I think my next post on this board will be "What is an EPC, how is it a GM's friend?"

On that note, have a good day. :)
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby HalC » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:36 am

Recent interactions with TravellerMap.com

Hello Folks,
Without saying who I contact, or what was said (or even why, since I'm not a mind reader!)...

I had reason to discover that in the data files for the Antares Milieu Zero data file have a couple of flaws. To wit:

Missing is an entry for 0501 Iimashirer - that does not have its analog present in the M0 subsector data.
Missing is an entry for 0634 Kamkishu - that does not have its analog present in the M0 subsector data.

Present as a location NOT in the 1105 file, is 0834 Imga -which, when compared against the missing data for Kamkishu, matches it almost exactly. Suggested fix is to turn its hex ID value to 0634 to resolve the issue.

That is all I have discovered thus far. My puzzlement stems from the fact that although I am willing to create the same file as I downloaded - with the fixes as I find them, the person I contacted had no enthusiasm for any such volunteer work. As a consequence, when I find these mistakes, I'll note them here in case anyone is interested. I doubt any will be, but one never knows. I certainly didn't want to do much with Milieu Zero material until recently for my first ever campaign set in it despite the years that have passed since T4 went out of production.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3869
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:55 am

HalC wrote: I'm going to have to check the rules to see if it is possible to have a world with a pop value of B. If by the rules it isn't possible, it is likely a mistake.
T5 says pop can be up to F, see e.g. T5.09, p409.
AnotherDilbert
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3869
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:59 am

Varulv wrote: What I do not do is share this with my players. I think I could be brave (mature) enough to encourage my players to use TravellerMap, but I don’t like the idea that they roam around in the Traveller Wiki. Sure, most information is harmless but I think there are too many spoilers that they can stumble upon. And thus: No Traveller Wiki means No TravellerMap for my players.

I presume that the majority of the regular forum users are referees, so how do tackle this dilemma?
The more the merrier!

Let them read the excellent TravellerMap and Traveller Wiki to their hearts content. The more involved they are in the background the better. Of course, some of the canon information is incorrect IMTU, so they should not believe everything they read...
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby HalC » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:18 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:55 am
HalC wrote: I'm going to have to check the rules to see if it is possible to have a world with a pop value of B. If by the rules it isn't possible, it is likely a mistake.
T5 says pop can be up to F, see e.g. T5.09, p409.
I was thinking more along the lines of a possible typo from the days of T4... *teasing grin*

My dim recollection being what it was (and now confirmed) rolls for pop value is 2d6-2, which makes an 11 Population absent any positive die additions, impossible. Of course, nothing states that one can't have a population B because the GM made it so, or that the authors of the T4 material made it so.

Looking up the data in the actual book, Shaniin from Corrirdor in hex 3225 should have the UWP of: C226BEE-9 The file downloaded from TravellerMap states its UWP as being C426BEE-9 (I presume that the change in diameter is a retcon of the 1105 data saying the world diameter is 4, word has it that Marc updated some of the physical data in light of the impossible combinations otherwise possible in the original rules...).

Since the data in the book confirms that Pop is supposed to be a B, and that by normal rules, you can't generate a B result - I understand now why it was stated that Milieu Zero stats are problematical (my wording, not another's). None the less, on the presumption it was a typographical error that got past the editors, it would have been a simple fix to change it to an A and be done with it. (which I am now fixing by the by!). Now I have to wonder just how seriously bad the original data is, and what it would take to fix them properly. <shrug>

Now you have me curious! How does one get as high as a pop F in T5!!!

(after consulting the page you referred to...) Ah... If the first roll for Pop was a 12 on 2d6 - roll again, this time with 2d6+3 and take that result instead. Not sure I like it, but hey, rules are rules right? ;)

Thanks AnotherDilbert.
Hakkonen
Mongoose
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:55 pm

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby Hakkonen » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:59 am

I had no idea Charted Space made up such a tiny fraction of the galaxy.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:55 am

HalC wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:18 am
Now you have me curious! How does one get as high as a pop F in T5!!!

(after consulting the page you referred to...) Ah... If the first roll for Pop was a 12 on 2d6 - roll again, this time with 2d6+3 and take that result instead. Not sure I like it, but hey, rules are rules right? ;)
I have:
If it's equal to 10, roll 2d6+3. Mentioned on page 409 of T5.09.

So using my computer, it took 5219 tries before a Population F world was generated.
Varulv
Stoat
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:16 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby Varulv » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:26 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:59 am
Varulv wrote: What I do not do is share this with my players. I think I could be brave (mature) enough to encourage my players to use TravellerMap, but I don’t like the idea that they roam around in the Traveller Wiki. Sure, most information is harmless but I think there are too many spoilers that they can stumble upon. And thus: No Traveller Wiki means No TravellerMap for my players.

I presume that the majority of the regular forum users are referees, so how do tackle this dilemma?
The more the merrier!

Let them read the excellent TravellerMap and Traveller Wiki to their hearts content. The more involved they are in the background the better. Of course, some of the canon information is incorrect IMTU, so they should not believe everything they read...
Thanks HalC and AnotherDilbert, You have convinced me that the advantages outweigh the drawbacks. By encouraging the players to use both TravellerMap and Traveller Wiki they will learn more about the Traveller universe which gives a better game - great! And at the same time a lot of responsibility/work is moved from the referee to the players, which is a big bonus.

And You're right, I still have vastly more information in all my books and supplements and it's IMTU. So, even though they might find out that the fifth frontier war is coming, I can change the dates and location for Zho’s initial attack IMTU. And I can rename the Empress Wave to the Core Anomaly and they won’t find anything in the Wiki.
HalC
Mongoose
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:42 pm

Re: TravellerMap.com as a really GOOD resource

Postby HalC » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:15 pm

I'm going to start a new thread on the Lunion Subsector aspect of the Fifth Frontier War...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 20 guests