Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

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paltrysum
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Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby paltrysum » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:46 pm

Based on the rules described in MgT2 High Guard, do you think it's possible to add armor and/or stealth modifications to a starship? Or would those be additions built into the hull at the shipyard when the ship was constructed?

My players have an Empress Marava far trader and have survived their first starship combat session, mostly due to the dodging expertise of their pilot. Down the road, once they've generated the income from trade, I'm curious what options they can consider adding to their ship to survive pirate attacks, etc.
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AnotherDilbert
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:25 pm

Armour and other parts of the ship integral to the hull (such as configuration or reinforced structure) cannot be changed under any refit.
MgT1 Trillion Credit Squadron, "Refitting Ships" p16.

I would say no to adding either armour or stealth.


The easy upgrade is better turret weapons.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby EldritchFire » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:48 pm

I cannot find anything in HG2e that says you can't do it. Therefore, I'd say you can.

From my point of view, you should be able to reinforce the hull plating by taking up precious cargo space, and adding a stealth coating shouldn't be that hard.

Of course, as GM I'd charge extra for labour as well as parts. After all, it's an aftermarket addition, right?
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Condottiere
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby Condottiere » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:37 pm

If you cab repair armoured hulls, you should be able to add or subtract to it. The rules would seem to be against it.

You could house rule it that adding on is possible, but costs maybe a quarter or half more.

One issue could be streamlining, which would make it more difficult for atmospheric reentry and manoeuvring within an atmosphere.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby vladthemad » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:04 pm

The design process takes tonnage from the ship when you add things like armor. Rulewise, you'd just take whatever extra tonnage you needed to add armor after the fact from the cargo hold. The problem is, once the ship is built, for realism and consistency you can't very well go adding armor to the inside of the hull and shifting everything around to compensate without a hell of a lot of work.

If you wanted a house rule for their player owned ship specifically, I'd say let them add it, but that whatever they add would be mounted to the outside of the hull. Basically welding extra plating, adding stealthy materials and paint, covering exhaust ports, etc. This increases the tonnage of the hull, it doesn't take the required space from the inside of an existing ship. So, if the ship is 400dT, and they want to add armor and stealth that would cost 10% of that tonnage, the ship is now 440dT, changing anything statwise that is related to the ship's new hull size. This modification would also be readily obvious to anyone, as it would literally be armored plates mounted to the exterior of the hull.

That's how I'd let them do it anyway. Find ways to say yes, instead of rules that say no ;)
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby EldritchFire » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:17 am

vladthemad wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:04 pm


That's how I'd let them do it anyway. Find ways to say yes, instead of rules that say no ;)
Thankfully, in this case, the rules don't say no. No need to make houserules when the rules presented already allow for it.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby Condottiere » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:55 am

The supplementary rules say no.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:25 pm

I think EldritchFire's point is that MgT2 has no rules for this (yet).

At least CT and MgT1 had rules for this.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby EldritchFire » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:35 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:25 pm
I think EldritchFire's point is that MgT2 has no rules for this (yet).

At least CT and MgT1 had rules for this.
That is indeed my point. HG2e doesn't say you can't add it afterwards. That, to me, says you can.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby Condottiere » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:38 pm

More like possible.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of having thought it through.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby Solomani666 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:01 pm

paltrysum wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:46 pm
Based on the rules described in MgT2 High Guard, do you think it's possible to add armor and/or stealth modifications to a starship? Or would those be additions built into the hull at the shipyard when the ship was constructed?

My players have an Empress Marava far trader and have survived their first starship combat session, mostly due to the dodging expertise of their pilot. Down the road, once they've generated the income from trade, I'm curious what options they can consider adding to their ship to survive pirate attacks, etc.
Reflec Armor should be simple enough.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby Condottiere » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:13 pm

You would have to cement that layer onto the hull.

For a more or less permanent treatment (barring accidents and combat), probably needs to be done professionally by a fully equipped yard.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby steve98052 » Sat May 20, 2017 9:04 pm

vladthemad wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:04 pm
. . .
If you wanted a house rule for their player owned ship specifically, I'd say let them add it, but that whatever they add would be mounted to the outside of the hull. Basically welding extra plating, adding stealthy materials and paint, covering exhaust ports, etc. This increases the tonnage of the hull, it doesn't take the required space from the inside of an existing ship. So, if the ship is 400dT, and they want to add armor and stealth that would cost 10% of that tonnage, the ship is now 440dT, changing anything statwise that is related to the ship's new hull size. This modification would also be readily obvious to anyone, as it would literally be armored plates mounted to the exterior of the hull.
. . .
I like this answer -- but a ship built with a drive designed for a 400 dton hull would lose jump range with the hull bumped up to 440 dton, which isn't very good.

Some ships have a lot of fuel tanks around the exterior of the working space. Armor could be built into that space and some cargo space converted to fuel.

Otherwise, it would be a rebuild, with a new armored hull and internal components salvaged from the original ship.
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Re: Adding armor and/or stealth to your starship

Postby baithammer » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:34 am

High Guard 2ed has a note under Spacecraft Options
While they will be considered
during the design of a spacecraft, most can be retrofitted
to existing designs by any capable shipyard of sufficient
Tech Level.
And of course the following on hull configuration.
Once chosen for a ship, the hull
configuration can never be changed – it is not possible
to retrofit a new hull configuration.
From Core 2nd Edition
The size of a ship, its components and cargo is
measured in displacement tons, or simply tons. A
displacement ton displaces a volume equal to one ton of
liquid hydrogen. One displacement ton is roughly equal
to 14 cubic metres.
Which would indicate upgrades should stay within the original design displacement, so trade offs and the use of Prototype/Advanced rules could be used to paint within the lines.

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