High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

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bluekieran
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby bluekieran » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:13 am

h1ro wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:39 am
Are you planning on adding the recalculation of drive performance to account for drop tanks, external cargo and clamped ships or did I miss it?
You mean M-drive performance? I hadn't considered that at all. It's a good idea, I'll try and take a look later.
What's the reason for the 75 ton limit on external cargo?
Hmm, I don't remember, and looking at the rules I have no idea what it might have been... I've removed the validation, anyway.
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby snrdg121408 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:43 pm

Hello bluekieran,
bluekieran wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:13 am
h1ro wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:39 am
Are you planning on adding the recalculation of drive performance to account for drop tanks, external cargo and clamped ships or did I miss it?
You mean M-drive performance? I hadn't considered that at all. It's a good idea, I'll try and take a look later.
What's the reason for the 75 ton limit on external cargo?
Hmm, I don't remember, and looking at the rules I have no idea what it might have been... I've removed the validation, anyway.
Both the maneuver and jump performance need to be recalculated depending on circumstances MgT HG 2e does provide information supporting the need to recalculate maneuver and jump drive performance.

MgT HG 2e p. 12 Recalculating Maneuver Drive Performance
Breakaway Hulls: A ship can be designed so it can operate as two or more independent vessels, breaking or splitting away from one another. Each section must have an appropriate bridge and power plant to operate it. Manoeuvre drive, jump drive, sensors, weapons, screens and so forth are all options that can (and, under normal circumstances, should) be included in each section. While the sections are together, drives, power plants and weapons can all be combined when calculating performance. This whole process consumes 2% of the combined hull tonnage for the extra bulkheads and connections needed, and costs an additional MCr2 per ton consumed. Hull points of each section will be proportionate to the total Hull points of the ship.

For example, you have a 1,000 ton ship and decide to split it so 400 tons can break away as a separate vessel. You install 20 tons of manoeuvre drive in the 400 ton section which gives it a Thrust of 5, while the 600 ton section has 66 tons of manoeuvre drive giving it Thrust 9. When combined, this is 86 tons of manoeuvre drive giving the 1,000 ton vessel Thrust 8. It typically takes 1D rounds to seperate a breakaway hull.

MgT HG 2e p. 130 Recalculating Jump Drive Performance
Gazelle Close Escort
With the internal tankage Jump-3 can be achieved, with drop tanks Jump-5, with the drop tanks retained Jump-4.

Jump 3 is with the drop tanks having been removed from the hull's exterior.
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bluekieran
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby bluekieran » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:06 pm

I don't think it applies as much to Jump drives because you drop/empty the drop tanks and can't jump with cargo attached (and presumably ships) except with a jump net; I think the jump net capacity is already figured in properly, although I've not looked at the sheet for a while.
h1ro
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby h1ro » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:24 pm

bluekieran wrote:You mean M-drive performance? I hadn't considered that at all. It's a good idea, I'll try and take a look later
All drives really, M, J, R and high burn thrusters all calculate performance based on displacement. Drop tanks, clamped ships or boats and external cargo all change the total volume so you need to calculate each drives performance for each permutation. Technically drop tanks are dropped a moment before jumping but they still affect M drive performance.

Drive performance is also calculated from the base volume of the drive - the volume before you adjust the drive with the primitive/advanced technology options. ((I asked over in this thread)
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:31 pm

bluekieran wrote: I don't think it applies as much to Jump drives because you drop/empty the drop tanks and ...
You can drop the tanks, you do not have to drop the tanks. Drop tanks are expensive, yet cheaper than a regular hull (especially armoured), so you might want to keep the drop tanks.

I use a separate field for jump displacement (= Hull + External Cargo + External craft + [possibly] Drop tanks) that I use as a base for drive and fuel calculations.

bluekieran wrote: ... and can't jump with cargo attached (and presumably ships) except with a jump net; ...
I don't think that is true?
A ship’s Thrust and jump capability must be recalculated when using external cargo mounts, using the combined tonnage of the ship and the external cargo it carries.
I use jump nets for external cargo, since I consider external cargo a little too good, but I see that as a house rule.
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:43 pm

To make it worse you might want to dimension the jump drive with drop tanks, but the manoeuvre drive without, or vice versa.

E.g. see the BC Hades: viewtopic.php?p=899216#p899216
bluekieran
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby bluekieran » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:02 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:43 pm
To make it worse you might want to dimension the jump drive with drop tanks, but the manoeuvre drive without, or vice versa.

E.g. see the BC Hades: viewtopic.php?p=899216#p899216
Yeah, I don't think I'll be trying to add a drop-down for every option; but a box that says "calculate maneuver drive with X extra tons" and gives a brief outline of which other options you may want to cover should be easy enough. I'll try and get to it later this week.
h1ro
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby h1ro » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:24 pm

I use an if function and leave the cell blank if the criteria (if there's a drop tank, clamped ship or external cargo) isn't met. I'll use a cell close to the regular drive performance to show what the rating is under that condition. Automates it so it doesn't rely on having to add stuff and entering more.
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby snrdg121408 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Afternoon PDT bluekieran,

While looking through my files I located a draft of a spreadsheet created back in 2007 with a friend that may or may not help with recalculating the maneuver and jump rating when using drop tanks, external docking clamps, and/or jump nets.

To determine the maneuver rating the friend suggested the following:

Drive tons / (Hull tons + Drop Tank tons) = Hull %

Cross reference the Hull % with the drive potential.

The worksheet appears to work with the manual inputs.

The notes, such as they are, recommended adding tags titles of Retained rating and Jettisoned rating,
snrdg121408 (aka Tom R)
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby Imeanunoharm » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:00 am

Hi PDT

I've had a quick glance at the sheet. Nice job, especially considering this is your first foray into spread sheets.

I have considerable experience in Excel. I'm hoping I can help you with the conversion download to excel problem when I have a little time. Or any other formula problems if you have them.

Removed Records: Formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet1.xml part

Removed Records: Shared formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet1.xml part

Removed Records: Formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet2.xml part


Before running through all the formulas, any idea what these refer to?

Might I also suggest that you start keeping a version history of bug fixes in a separate tab. It's the professional thing to do :)
bluekieran
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby bluekieran » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:47 am

Those errors don't really have enough detail for me to relate them to anything I'm afraid! But I'll be glad of any help you can offer. I'm pretty much hoping not to have to do a lot of maintenance on the sheet, now that it mostly works (though there are few fixes requested in this thread I should really get to) - I'm not using it myself at the moment, and am more interested in learning Javascript than more spreadsheet skills!

If you're more inclined to improve and maintain it, I might be happy to hand it over :)
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby Imeanunoharm » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:08 pm

I have never had the need to work in Google sheets before. I only just found out after another quick perusal there is an inbuilt version tracking.

Taking over another persons build, without adequate documentation, can be fraught with its own problems. I have only just come back from hiatus from MgTraveller1, where I had my own custom spreadsheet. I will ponder this proposal, as I come up to speed with the new build rules and your spread sheet, and decide what the easier path is.
bluekieran
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby bluekieran » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:41 pm

Imeanunoharm wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:08 pm
I have never had the need to work in Google sheets before. I only just found out after another quick perusal there is an inbuilt version tracking.

Taking over another persons build, without adequate documentation, can be fraught with its own problems. I have only just come back from hiatus from MgTraveller1, where I had my own custom spreadsheet. I will ponder this proposal, as I come up to speed with the new build rules and your spread sheet, and decide what the easier path is.
Yeah, TBH mine would be a bit of a nightmare to maintain. I've made very little use of variable names, sensible/modular layout, or even a consistent approach. It was very much a "learn-as-you-go" experience and some of the tricks I used later I just didn't know early on.
snrdg121408
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Re: High Guard 2e Ship Design Spreadsheet v1.1 (Google Docs)

Postby snrdg121408 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:54 pm

Hello Imeanunoharm,
Imeanunoharm wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:00 am
Hi PDT

I've had a quick glance at the sheet. Nice job, especially considering this is your first foray into spread sheets.

I have considerable experience in Excel. I'm hoping I can help you with the conversion download to excel problem when I have a little time. Or any other formula problems if you have them.

Removed Records: Formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet1.xml part

Removed Records: Shared formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet1.xml part

Removed Records: Formula from /xl/worksheets/sheet2.xml part


Before running through all the formulas, any idea what these refer to?

Might I also suggest that you start keeping a version history of bug fixes in a separate tab. It's the professional thing to do :)
The best that I can tell is the message strips out all the look-ups from the spreadsheet. OpenOffice does a better job at converting the original spreadsheet.
snrdg121408 (aka Tom R)

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