G/Carrier, light

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Annatar Giftbringer
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G/Carrier, light

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:38 am

Greetings,
So I decided to test the new vehicle design rules yesterday. This was all done during coffee breaks and other down time while at work - the system really is that simple to use! (In fact, it took much longer to write this than to design the vehicle!)

I decided to build a mini G/carrier, one that might actually fit the vehicle bay of a patrol corvette ;)

As you'll notice, it's not quite finished yet, I need to add computer, sensors, fire control and stuff like that, but this is why I've got for now:

G/carrier, light
TL: 15
Skill: flyer (grav)
Agility: +1
Speed: fast
Range: 2.500
Spaces: 16
Hull: 32
Shipping: 8 dton
Traits:

Crew: 2+8 10 spaces

Armour: 24 (4+20) 1 space

Equipment:
vacuum protection
Life support, short 1 space
Orbital comms 1 space
Decreased speed x1 -1 space
Decreased fuel x2 -2 spaces
Small turret 1 space
Gauss cannon 4 spaces
Free space/cargo: 250 kg/1 space

Comments: I decided to make it TL 15 to match its larger cousin, the Rakatama.

Size-wise the bay aboard the Type T is designed to hold an 8 dt vehicle, so I went with that. I also have a budget of 5 Mcr available.

According to High Guard: deployment shuttle a marine section usually consists of 2x four man squads and a two man specialist team. The corvette carries 8 marines. This could mean 2x four man teams and no specialists, or one squad plus two specialist teams - possibly two vehicle crew and two boarding specialists.

I decided to make room for 10 Crew & passengers in my carrier, so it can carry an entire section. For vehicles stationed aboard corvettes two seats could be removed to free up 0,5 tons of cargo space, unless the G/Carrier is piloted by ship's crew (in which case all 8 passenger seats would be needed for the marines).

The Rakatama class G/carrier is limited to the fast speed band, so it will suffice for my design too. I also decided to halve its range. This is a craft meant to be stationed aboard spaceships, presumably deployed for short missions only. Should a situation require it to travel fast or far it will fit within the cargo bay of the ship's boat (or the ship itself can carry it, being streamlined and all).

It is very portable, as said above one can fit within the cargo space of a boat, and two inside a pinnace! (The perfect companion for Kinnunir cruisers perhaps?)

To my surprise I discovered that the regular G/carrier (the Rakatama) isn't vacuum proof! I guess it never has been, and I've just assumed that it is... ah well. I'm not sure this one needs to be either, and the same goes for the orbital comms equipment, but I figured since this one is meant to be deployed aboard ships it might need both these systems - plus it only costs 2 spaces and a bunch of credits :)

It is a bit lightly armoured, merely somewhat resistant to small arms fire. This can easily be remedied by using the last free space to install another 20 points of armour, perhaps a good idea?

When it comes to weapons I toyed around a bit with various autocannon and missile combos, but ultimately the gauss cannon looked like a good choice, with high rate of fire as well as high damage. Anti-tank missiles are always good to have, of course (either the smaller tac variant or the large ones from vehicle handbook) but with the intended role of deploying troops from a patrol ship it should rarely get involved with heavy armour, and besides it has the corvette nearby for fire support when needed.

The gauss cannon might be a tad excessive, and thus risk being swapped for some form of autocannon and either two tac launchers or a single anti-tank missile though, haven't quite decided that yet - or better yet: a 2 space hard-point or bay so missile loads can be chosen for each mission.

Anyways, that's what I've got so far. I'll be looking at sensors and electronics soon, as well as cost, to see what I can fit, but I think I'm off to a good start :)

Comments are very welcome at this stage :)
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:50 am

Annatar Giftbringer wrote:Equipment:
vacuum protection
Life support, short 1 space
Orbital comms 1 space
Decreased speed x1 -1 space
Decreased fuel x2 -2 spaces
Small turret 1 space
Gauss cannon 4 spaces
Free space/cargo: 250 kg/1 space
I agree the size is very appealing. The Gauss Cannon is the hi-tech autocannon, good against battledress and lightly armoured vehicles.

I have not bought the book yet, so I use the beta-rules for my comments:

I do not think a small turret consumes more than 1 space including weapon, so you do not need to deduct 4 spaces for the Gauss Cannon.

But you need some ammo, either in the small turret, or in the main chassis. If in the main chassis you should dedicate 1 space or so to that.

I would add some more armour (perhaps Reactive Armour), and perhaps Structural Reinforcement for more Hull.
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Jame Rowe » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:58 pm

I always assumed that the g carrier was vacuum proof.
And TL 10.
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Annatar Giftbringer
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:36 am

The turret issue is a bit vague, yes. The description does say that a small turret takes up one space within the vehicle, and can hold up to 4 spaces worth of weapons. This could be interpreted as 4 "free" spaces at the cost of 1 (the turret itself).

However, look at the pintle-mount, the text says that the mount itself takes no spaces, but it can hold weapons up to 500 kg. It doesn't say outright if the weapon is 'free' (space-wise) or not, but it could be interpreted as such, if it wasn't for the example design process where they specifically mention the space-cost of the autocannon. I'm interpreting it as working the same way with turrets (and all other weapon mounts). The alternative could become absurd since a heavy turret requires 4 spaces and can mount weapons of any size (hello, orbital defense cannon (140 spaces)!)

I do have one space left, so I can make room for additional ammo or 20 extra armour - more if I scrap the life support and orbital comms, or reduce its range by an additional 25%.

Speaking of ammo, too bad I installed a heavy weapon like the gauss cannon. It only gets one reload per space, a lighter weapon would have gotten 10 reloads :/
Annatar Giftbringer
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:44 am

Jame Rowe wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:58 pm
I always assumed that the g carrier was vacuum proof.
And TL 10.
Agreed in the vacuum but, don't have my 1st ed rulebook available right now, but I seem to recall it being TL15 last time too..?

I'm thinking about making mine vacuum-proof but no life-support, to save space. It wouldn't leak air, and could be deployed from orbit (or loaded into the ship's boat) but the occupants would need breathing gear - which they should wear since they're marines, likely equipped with combat armour or even battledress
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:01 pm

Annatar Giftbringer wrote: The turret issue is a bit vague, yes. The description does say that a small turret takes up one space within the vehicle, and can hold up to 4 spaces worth of weapons. This could be interpreted as 4 "free" spaces at the cost of 1 (the turret itself).
I have assumed a small turret takes no space for the weapon, but a heavy turret takes space for the weapon.
From the beta:
A small turret costs Cr10000 for every Space of installed weaponry, plus the cost of the weapons installed, and consumes one Space within the vehicle itself.

A large turret costs Cr25000 for every Space of installed weaponry, plus the cost of the weapons installed, and consumes four Spaces within the vehicle itself, plus the number of Spaces used by the weapons and one Space for each crewman the turret can contain (small turrets are effectively ‘bolted on’, while large turrets are considered to be integral parts of the vehicle).
Annatar Giftbringer wrote: Speaking of ammo, too bad I installed a heavy weapon like the gauss cannon. It only gets one reload per space, a lighter weapon would have gotten 10 reloads :/
The Gauss Cannon is much better than the autocannons. You might consider adding a Light Autocannon as a anti-infantry "machine gun".
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:39 pm

The wording has changed. I'm at work, so only have my phone (and too little time) but I'll try to post quotes when I get home. Looks like all weapon mounts mention how many spaces the mount itself require and (where applicable) the maximum size weapon they accept.

Agree on the gauss vs auto. Depending on available spaces a light autocannon might find its way onto the vehicle, or just a number of gun ports for the passengers.

The gauss cannon works against infantry too :) even better with special ammo, like frag
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby AnotherDilbert » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:20 pm

Annatar Giftbringer wrote: The wording has changed. I'm at work, so only have my phone (and too little time) but I'll try to post quotes when I get home. Looks like all weapon mounts mention how many spaces the mount itself require and (where applicable) the maximum size weapon they accept.
OK, sounds like no more free spaces on small turrets. That is probably good.
Annatar Giftbringer wrote: Agree on the gauss vs auto. Depending on available spaces a light autocannon might find its way onto the vehicle, or just a number of gun ports for the passengers.

The gauss cannon works against infantry too :) even better with special ammo, like frag
Yes, certainly, but you can carry more ammo for the LAC as you pointed out earlier. If it costs 1 space for a turret + 1 space for the weapon + 1 space for the ammo it's perhaps too expensive.

200 rounds per space for the Gauss Cannon is a little light if you use it as a machine gun. 1 space gets you 5000 rounds for the LAC, right?
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Jame Rowe » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:52 am

Annatar Giftbringer wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:44 am
Jame Rowe wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:58 pm
I always assumed that the g carrier was vacuum proof.
And TL 10.
Agreed in the vacuum but, don't have my 1st ed rulebook available right now, but I seem to recall it being TL15 last time too..?

I'm thinking about making mine vacuum-proof but no life-support, to save space. It wouldn't leak air, and could be deployed from orbit (or loaded into the ship's boat) but the occupants would need breathing gear - which they should wear since they're marines, likely equipped with combat armour or even battledress
In CT its actually TL9. MGTs is an advanced version.
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:34 am

Vehicle Handbook, p.9 wrote:They will settle on the Light Autocannon
(see page 42), as it consumes just a single space, has
the Auto 3 trait and kicks out 6D damage – what is
there for a Traveller not to like?
The autocannon is installed on a pintle mount on the
top of the vehicle
Pintle Mounts (p.37) wrote:A pintle mount consumes no Spaces and costs Cr250,
while a ring mount costs Cr750. A weapon of up to 500
kg may be attached to them.
Small Turret (p.38) wrote:small turret costs Cr10000 for every Space of installed
weaponry, plus the cost of the weapons installed, and
consumes one Space within the vehicle itself.
A small turret can hold up to 4 Spaces of weapons.
Large Turret wrote:A large turret costs Cr25000 for every Space of installed
weaponry, plus the cost of the weapons installed, and
consumes four Spaces within the vehicle itself, plus one
Space for each crewman the turret can contain
The way I read these quotes is that every space counts when it comes to weapons, no free spaces anywhere.
AnotherDilbert wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:20 pm
Annatar Giftbringer wrote: The wording has changed. I'm at work, so only have my phone (and too little time) but I'll try to post quotes when I get home. Looks like all weapon mounts mention how many spaces the mount itself require and (where applicable) the maximum size weapon they accept.
OK, sounds like no more free spaces on small turrets. That is probably good.
Annatar Giftbringer wrote: Agree on the gauss vs auto. Depending on available spaces a light autocannon might find its way onto the vehicle, or just a number of gun ports for the passengers.

The gauss cannon works against infantry too :) even better with special ammo, like frag
Yes, certainly, but you can carry more ammo for the LAC as you pointed out earlier. If it costs 1 space for a turret + 1 space for the weapon + 1 space for the ammo it's perhaps too expensive.

200 rounds per space for the Gauss Cannon is a little light if you use it as a machine gun. 1 space gets you 5000 rounds for the LAC, right?
Yeah, giving the gauss cannon one additional ammo space gives it a total of 400 rounds, which is 44 combat rounds of full auto attacks. A light autocannon would get 5,000 additional rounds, correct.

Even without additional ammo a LAC could keep firing for longer than a gauss cannon. Hence my first idea to mount a LAC or Rotary Autocannon plus missiles. On a small chassis like mine, space is at a premium, so squeezing in several weapons can get tricky - especially if the primary gun is as large as the gauss cannnon. A small turret could fit a Rotaty Autocannon with extra ammo plus a Tac Launcher. With armour piercing ammo the RAC would be decent against even medium armoured targets

The Gauss Cannon however hits harder than an armour piercing tac missile, and can get anti-personell (frag) or anti-armour ammo to make it even more effective.

One fun loadout would be a small turret with a Light autocannon and a Tac launcher, both with additional ammo - 5,000 rounds and 40 missiles :)

It seems to me the gauss cannon is superior in every way except ammo capacity, so I'll stick with it for now - with extra ammo and a small amount of special ammo (30-60 rounds each of frag and armour piercing). The one thing the gauss cannon doesn't excel at is mowing doen large groups of unprotected infantry (unless frag ammo is used!) and that's a role fitting the onboard marines perfectly! Gun ports will be added.

I re-read the description for orbital comms (satellite uplink). I can't see my vehicle ever needing it. TL12 advanced communication systems have a range of 1,000 km. This can be increased ten-fold. Should have no problem reaching the corvette with that installed, especially since the corvette would most likely be nearby (relatively speaking). This saves one space, meaning I can get both the additional ammo for the gauss cannon AND 20 extra armour!

Starting to look good now, the question is if it needs to be vacuum-protected - or actually the life support equipment is what's taking space. Removing it and decreasing range by another 25% (combined with fuel efficiency) frees up two spaces, that's a pintle-mounted light autocannon with lots and lots of extra ammo* - thoughts on that?

*Or 2x tac launchers. Or... An advanced laser anti-missile system. Can be used to shoot down incoming grenades and missiles, or be used offensively (2d, auto 4)
Jame Rowe wrote: In CT its actually TL9. MGTs is an advanced version.
I did not know that! I'm only familiar with Mongoose Traveller. I was gonna design this G/Carrier as a TL12 craft at first, but changed my mind when I was that the regular G/Carrier was T15 - plus it meant I could squeeze some extra spaces while keeping decent performance :)
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby steve98052 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:58 pm

For mowing down hordes of lightly armored cannon fodder, the VRF Gauss Gun is an army's worst nightmare. It can punch through fairly tough body armor too. I don't know whether it would fit well in a small vehicle, however.
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:05 pm

Ah, the VRF Gauss gun, love it! Sadly I haven't found it in any of the 2nd edition books I own :(

There is however a lovely new weapon in the vehicle handbook called rotary autocannon, that does basically the same thing :)
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:03 pm

Annatar Giftbringer wrote:
Vehicle Handbook, p.9 wrote:They will settle on the Light Autocannon...
Thanks!

Annatar Giftbringer wrote: It seems to me the gauss cannon is superior in every way except ammo capacity, so I'll stick with it for now - with extra ammo...
The Gauss Cannon is very good. Fragmentation will not do much against armoured infantry, perhaps fuel-air ammo?

TL10 Tac launchers are outdated by TL15.

A budget choice might be a small turret with a FGMP and a LAC and another pintle LAC, with a single space of ammo that is 5 spaces. Better against infantry and the occasional bunker, but no anti-armour capacity.


A geostationary comm satellite is at 36000 km. A satellite uplink is probably not wasted, but you have to skimp somewhere...
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby wbnc » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:47 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:03 pm
Annatar Giftbringer wrote:
Vehicle Handbook, p.9 wrote:They will settle on the Light Autocannon...
Thanks!

Annatar Giftbringer wrote: It seems to me the gauss cannon is superior in every way except ammo capacity, so I'll stick with it for now - with extra ammo...
The Gauss Cannon is very good. Fragmentation will not do much against armoured infantry, perhaps fuel-air ammo?

TL10 Tac launchers are outdated by TL15.

A budget choice might be a small turret with a FGMP and a LAC and another pintle LAC, with a single space of ammo that is 5 spaces. Better against infantry and the occasional bunker, but no anti-armour capacity.


A geostationary comm satellite is at 36000 km. A satellite uplink is probably not wasted, but you have to skimp somewhere...
Usually, an Infantry fighting vehicle or APC is geared toward infantry support The M-3 Bradley is a bit of a deviation from that trend since it can lay down pretty heavy firepower for an infantry vehicle. The heaviest weapon you need is one that can deal with light vehicles, and improvised fortifications. Putting a gun that can take out a heavy vehicle is a bit of a waste under most circumstances. In a combined arms unit there would be gunships, tanks and dedicated anti-armor assets around to deal with those threats.

However, You can mix and atch vehicles with various equipment in a platoon, or company level unit, one unit with the commander abaord can have the sat link, while another has a heavy weapon to deal with unexpected threats such as tank or heavier fortifications.
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:06 pm

wbnc wrote: Usually, an Infantry fighting vehicle or APC is geared toward infantry support
I think the OP wanted an IFV for the Patrol Corvette and similar applications. It's expected to operate alone.

So some anti-vehicle capability is probably a good idea.
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby wbnc » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:18 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:06 pm
wbnc wrote: Usually, an Infantry fighting vehicle or APC is geared toward infantry support
I think the OP wanted an IFV for the Patrol Corvette and similar applications. It's expected to operate alone.

So some anti-vehicle capability is probably a good idea.
AH well that would make sense :D
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:16 am

My little beast is fully statted!
I may have gone a wee bit overboard with the customization chapter... nah, I like it like this! Besides, it's designed to work alone, so it's gonna need all those expensive options - and the wicked cannon!

Fuel air explosive ammo, why didn't I think of that?! Brilliant! Though the frag rounds aren't meant to deal with armoured elite infantry, it's meant mow down unarmoured foes, zerglings, zombie swarms and stuff like that. Regular ammo (or plasma) should be perfect against combat armour and above.

I'm thinking at least 25% of the ammo should be special rounds, such as APDS, fuel-air, frag, some flares... whatever the mission needs.

All it needs now is a name... Fat Ferret? It's relatively small, agile and packs a nasty bite. The fat part of course from the passenger compartment :)

G/carrier, light
TL: 15
Skill: flyer (grav)
Agility: +5
Speed: very fast (fast)
Range: 2,500 (3,750)
Crew: 2
Passengers: 8
Spaces: 16
Hull: 32
Shipping: 8 dtons
Cargo: 0
Cost: 2,826,200 cr

Traits: streamlined

Armour: 44/44/44

Autopilot: flyer(grav) +3
Communications (encrypted): 10,000 km
Navigation: +4
Sensors: +2, 250 km
Camouflage: -4
Stealth: -4

Weapons:
Small turret: gauss cannon, advanced fire control (+4)
Advanced laser anti-missile system (+4 intercept)
Fire points: 3 per side, 2 rear

Equipment:
Decreased speed x1, Decreased fuel x4, Fuel efficiency x1, Small turret (Gauss cannon, Advanced fire control), additional gauss ammo x1, advanced laser anti-missile system, Advanced control systems, Advanced autopilot, Advanced comms (encrypted, long range x1), Computer/5, Advanced navigation, Advanced sensors (hardened, long range x1), Advanced camouflage, Advanced stealth, short term Life support, Vacuum protection, Fire extinguishers, entertainment system

Description will be added later...
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby AnotherDilbert » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:36 pm

Looks good!

Exactly what a Patrol Corvette (or band of adventurers) would want.


A 10 dT small craft is only slightly more expensive, though...
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:11 pm

Thanks, that's what I was aiming for! It was fun to make, hopefully someone has fun using it. Sure, it has lots of (in some cases) expensive extra equipment that might not seem neccesary, but thanks to it even not-so-skilled can use it successfully thanks to the vehicles high agility, autopilot, fire Control and all the other helpful addons :)

Sure, a 10 dt chassis would have been perfect, no need for tweaking and trixing to make it work, plus I could have saved approx half a million credits on streamlining and still kept the very fast speed by not having to reduce the speed in the first Place, plus there might be room for some cargo! But... It all started as a fun project to fill the vehicle bay of the Type T Patrol Corvette, and that limits it to 8 dt (my guess is the Corvette was designed early in the process, Before the vehicle rules were quite finished, and back then the G/Carrier was smaller)

I also considered adding reactive armour since I already had the spending pants on, but that would take the total armour way over the maximum allowed 50 for a non-AFV TL15 vehicle, so I figured it might not be allowed...?
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Re: G/Carrier, light

Postby Jak Nazryth » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Great design by the way! :)
Small, agile, nasty bite...
Instead of "fat ferret" class light G-Carrier, what about Honey Badger class light G-carrier... or simply Badger Class light G-Carrier?
Or even Piranha Class?
Last edited by Jak Nazryth on Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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