How many Crew for Smelters

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PsiTraveller
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How many Crew for Smelters

Postby PsiTraveller » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:27 am

pg 71 to 72 has a Smelter being described.
A chart like the refinery would be easier to read, and no tech level is given, no tech improvements are listed. No crew is listed.
ShawnDriscoll
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:14 am

What's the difference if a refinery is on a planetoid or on a ship? They both use smelters. If anything, the page 200 reference is probably wrong.
msprange
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby msprange » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:51 am

PsiTraveller wrote:pg 71 to 72 has a Smelter being described.
A chart like the refinery would be easier to read, and no tech level is given, no tech improvements are listed. No crew is listed.
The smelter is a bolt-on to a refinery (you need a refinery first), and uses the same TL and crew as the refinery it is attached to.
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PsiTraveller
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby PsiTraveller » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:58 pm

Thank you:

So if I understand it the production will look like

Refinery:
Tl: 13
Tonnage of refinery: 100
Handles 2 tons ore per ton of refinery: 200 tons ore per day
Power: 100 Points of power
Crew: 1 per 50 tons: I am assuming of gear: so 2 Crew

Processes 200 tons of ore per day to make 100 tons Common ore
60 tons uncommon ore
30 tons Crystals and Gems
10 tons Precious Metals

Smelter for Common Ore
500 tons of smelter (It takes 5 tons of smelter for 1 ton of ore)
Power: 500 points of Power
Crew: 10
Produces: 50 tons of Raw Materials a Day

Uncommon Smelter
300 Tons of Smelter
300 Power Points
Crew: 6
Produces 30 tons of Uncommon Raw Materials

Is this right?


Next question, and it opens up a whole economic can of worms. If you had such a smelting and refining system onboard a ship. Could you then add in a manufacturing module and construction deck and make a 20 000 Ton or larger mobile maintenance dock and construction ship for a military campaign?
It would solve the logistics problem. You could make more missiles and railgun ammo, more sand canisters, even more fighters and smaller ships to replace battle losses.

You could even make Drop Tanks and keep the Jump Train moving along into new territory.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby phavoc » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:14 pm

PsiTraveller wrote:Thank you:

So if I understand it the production will look like

Refinery:
Tl: 13
Tonnage of refinery: 100
Handles 2 tons ore per ton of refinery: 200 tons ore per day
Power: 100 Points of power
Crew: 1 per 50 tons: I am assuming of gear: so 2 Crew

Processes 200 tons of ore per day to make 100 tons Common ore
60 tons uncommon ore
30 tons Crystals and Gems
10 tons Precious Metals

Smelter for Common Ore
500 tons of smelter (It takes 5 tons of smelter for 1 ton of ore)
Power: 500 points of Power
Crew: 10
Produces: 50 tons of Raw Materials a Day

Uncommon Smelter
300 Tons of Smelter
300 Power Points
Crew: 6
Produces 30 tons of Uncommon Raw Materials

Is this right?


Next question, and it opens up a whole economic can of worms. If you had such a smelting and refining system onboard a ship. Could you then add in a manufacturing module and construction deck and make a 20 000 Ton or larger mobile maintenance dock and construction ship for a military campaign?
It would solve the logistics problem. You could make more missiles and railgun ammo, more sand canisters, even more fighters and smaller ships to replace battle losses.

You could even make Drop Tanks and keep the Jump Train moving along into new territory.
The hole in that plan is the assumption that whatever you are mining is going to have all the necessary minerals present. The mining model is overly simplified and does not reflect the reality that many asteroids are going to be worthless to mine. And you also need other trace elements (gold, platinum, iridium, copper, radioactives to name just a few) in sufficient quantities to generate the raw materials to build anything complex. A railgun round is pretty straightforward, and while denser metals would provide more damage, a nickel slug accelerated to high speed will still do a lot of damage, just less than one made out of a denser metal. But for missiles, which require complex electronics and guidance systems, even assuming you would manufacture all of that on your mobile manufacturing plant (via 3D printing and CAD/CAM manufacturing or some other process), you STILL need all the necessary trace elements to actually make it work.

So it depends on who far down you want to go along the reality tree in your gaming universe. If navies could tote around manufacturing fleets and space docks, in theory they would NEVER have to fall back for resupply and repair. It would also mean you would have mobile fleet bases consisting of manufacturing ships instead of planetary or space-based installations with large stores of supplies. I think the latter is more appropriate and remains with canon Traveller.

However you could change things around if you so chose, with the rules laid out. You now just need to determine how fast you could manufacture a missile using an automated production line.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby msprange » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:38 pm

There are a lot of assumptions made in the refinery rules, such as the space station is being parked in the right place in the right system to take advantage of natural resources. So, this would be very much a referee decision.

Still, on the note of a self-sustaining fleet, the other resource you would have to renew is crew. Could be done on the worlds the fleet visits and the ships it runs across. I believe the Royal Navy had a similar policy in the 18th Century :)
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AnotherDilbert
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:20 pm

Light Mobile Shipyard

Designed to provide 2500 dT shipyard capacity and 5000 dT manufacturing / month. No manufacturing while in jump.
Consumes 1600 dT ore per day to produce 400 dT raw material to produce 200 dT specialist equipment per day.
Carries 5 * 100 dT ore tugs to find and bring the ore.
43000 dT, J-3, M-2, Crew 400 + 900 workers, GCr 24.

Code: Select all

TL 15          Hull 19 350                            23 873,0       Sensor DM  +6  
Civilian 0               Desired  ∆TL  Rat   #   dTon   Cost   Power   HardP  Crew  
Hull                                            43000           8600     430    
Config  Sphere               3          3               1720
Hull strength  Standard      2          2      
Rad Shielding                1          1               1075
                      
JumpD      Budget EneIneff   3    -0    3    1   3230   3634   16770           92
ManœuvreD  Budget EneIneff   2    -0    2    1    860   1290   11180           25
PowerP     Standard                          1   2093   4186   41859           60  
    Emergency Power          1               1    209    419        
                      
Drop Tank Collar 12 900 dT   1          1    1     52     26        
Drop Tanks       12 900 dT   3                           323        
Fuel, Jump                   3          3    1  12900          
Fuel, Power                  4          4    1    209          
Fuel Purification         48 h       48 h    1    323     16        
                      
                      
Command Bridge               1               1     80    323        
    Holographic              1               1            81        
Comp         CORE/50        10         50    1            60        
Backup Comp  CORE/40         9         40    1            45        
    /fib                     1               1            53               
                      
Sensors  Advanced            9          4    1      5      5       6      
Array  Distributed           9          3    1     10     11        
Mineral Detection                                          5        
Extension Net  None                    
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9          2    1      2      8       2      
Shallow Pen Suite            9               1     10      5       1      
Countermeasures  Military    9          2    1     15     28       2      
                      
Staterooms                100%       1300 1300   5200    650        
Common Areas               25%        25%    1   1300    130        
Escape Capsule               1            2600   1300     52        
Briefing Room               20              20     80     10        
Library                     10              10     40     40        
Medical Bay  5% of crew      1              13     52     26        
Workshop                    10              10     60      9        
Armoury                      1              62     62     16        
Marine Training Facilities   5               5     10      2      10      
Brig                        10              10     40      3        
Low Berths                  10         10    1      5      1       1      
Cargo                                             961          
Cargo Crane                  1               1      6      6        
Cargo Net                                           5          
Collapsible Fuel Tank      500             500      5      0        
                      
Shipyard                  2500            2500   5000   2500    5000          500  
Manufactoring Specialist  5000             200   3333   3333    6667          278  
Smelter                  10000             400   4000   2000    4000           80  
Mineral Refinery         20000            1600    800   1600     800           16  

                      
Craft          100 dT        5               5    550    138                   25  
                35 dT        5               5    193     48                   15  
                      

                      
Crew                1288                  
  Command             62                  
  Bridge              20                  
      Pilot                  1                
      Astrogator             1                
      Sensor & EW            8
  Engineer           220  
      Engineer             176,7
      Maintenance           43,0
  Service             32  
      Admin                 21,5
      Medic                 10,1
      Steward                0,0
  Gunner    
  Flight              40  
  Workers            874  
  Troops              50  
Can perform yearly maintenance and repairs for 10 - 20 frigates à GCr 2, so almost the same cost for the shipyard as for the frigates.
Can produce in the region of 100 dT = 1200 missiles per day, so can restock 10 missile frigates in about three weeks.
Lots of estimates used to dimension and crew the ship.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:55 pm

Light Mobile Shipyard

Designed to provide 2500 dT shipyard capacity and 5000 dT manufacturing / month. Full manufacturing while in jump.
Consumes 3200 dT ore per day to produce 800 dT raw material /day. Stores 4000 dT raw materials for jump.
Produces 200 dT specialist equipment per day while jumping every other week. Stores 1000 dT equipment.
Carries 10 * 100 dT ore tugs to find and bring the ore.
64000 dT, J-3, M-2, Crew 550 + 1000 workers, GCr 33.

Code: Select all

TL 15               Hull 32 000                       33 386,4       Sensor DM  +6  
Civilian 0               Desired  ∆TL  Rat   #   dTon   Cost   Power   HardP  Crew  
Hull                                            64000          12800     640    
Config  Sphere                3         3               2560        
Hull strength  Standard       2         2              
Rad Shielding                 1         1               1600        
                      
JumpD      Budget EneIneff    3   -0    3    1   4805   5406   24960          137  
ManœuvreD  Budget EneIneff    2   -0    2    1   1280   1920   16640           37  
PowerP     Standard                          1   2952   5905   59049           84  
    Emergency Power           1              1    295    590        
                      
Drop Tank Collar  19 200 dT   1         1    1     77     38        
Drop Tanks                      
Fuel, Jump                    3         3    1  19200          
Fuel, Power                   4         4    1    295          
Fuel Purification          48 h      48 h    1    480     24        
                      
Command Bridge                1              1     80    480        
    Holographic               1              1           120        
Comp         CORE/50         10        50    1            60        
Backup Comp  CORE/40          9        40    1            45        
    /fib                      1              1            53        
                      
Sensors  Advanced             9         4    1      5      5       6      
Array  Distributed            9         3    1     10     11        
Mineral Detection                                          5        
Extension Net  None                    
Signal Processing  Enhanced   9         2    1      2      8       2      
Shallow Pen Suite             9         1   10      5      1      
Countermeasures  Military     9         2    1     15     28       2      
                      
Staterooms                 100%      1560 1560   6240    780        
Common Areas                25%       25%    1   1560    156        
Escape Capsule                1           3120   1560     62        
Briefing Room                20             20     80     10        
Library                      10             10     40     40        
Medical Bay  5% of crew       1             16     64     32        
Workshop                     10             10     60      9        
Armoury                       1             73     73     18        
Marine Training Facilities    5              5     10      2      10      
Brig                         10             10     40      3        
Low Berths                   10        10    1      5      1       1      
Cargo                                            5268          
Cargo Crane                   1              1     20     20        
Cargo Net                                           5          
Collapsible Fuel Tank      5000           5000     50      3        
                      
Shipyard                   2500           2500   5000   2500    5000          500  
Manufactoring Specialist   5000            200   3333   3333    6667          278  
Smelter                   20000            800   8000   4000    8000          160  
Mineral Refinery          40000           3200   1600   3200    1600           32  

                      
Craft          100 dT        10             10   1100    275                   50  
                35 dT        10             10    385     96                   30  
                      
                      
Crew                1552                  
  Command             74                  
  Bridge              10                  
      Pilot                  1                
      Astrogator             1                
      Sensor & EW            8
  Engineer           323  
      Engineer             258,2
      Maintenance           64,0
  Service             45  
      Admin                 32,0
      Medic                 12,3
      Steward                0,7
  Gunner    
  Flight              80  
  Workers            970  
  Troops              50  
Can perform yearly maintenance and repairs for 10 - 20 frigates à GCr 2, so almost the same cost for the shipyard as for the frigates.
Can produce in the region of 100 dT = 1200 missiles per day, so can restock 10 missile frigates in about three weeks.
Lots of estimates used to dimension and crew the ship.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:21 pm

Heavy Mobile Shipyard (for light battleships)

Designed to provide 125000 dT shipyard capacity and 250000 dT manufacturing / month. Full manufacturing while in jump.
Consumes 160000 dT ore per day to produce 20000 dT raw material /day. Stores 60000 dT raw materials for jump.
Produces 10000 dT specialist equipment per day while jumping every other week. Stores 20000 dT equipment.
Carries 10 * 100 dT ore tugs to find and bring the ore.
2.6 MdT, J-3, M-2, Crew 68000 including 48500 workers, TCr 1.5.

Code: Select all

TL 15           Hull 1733 333                      1 477 010,0       Sensor DM  +6  
Civilian 0               Desired  ∆TL  Rat   #    dTon    Cost    Power   HardP  Crew  
Hull                                           2600000           520000   26000    
Config  Sphere                3         3               104000        
Hull strength  Standard       2         2              
Rad Shielding                 1         1                65000        
                      
JumpD      Budget EneIneff    3   -0    3    1  195005  219381  1014000          5572  
ManœuvreD  Budget EneIneff    2   -0    2    1   52000   78000   676000          1486  
PowerP  Standard                             1  129877  259754  2597541          3711  
    Emergency Power           1              1   12988   25975        
                         
Drop Tank Collar  780 000 dT  1         1    1    3120    1560        
Fuel, Jump                    3         3    1  780000          
Fuel, Power                   4         4    1   12988          
Fuel Purification          48 h      48 h    1   19500     975        
                      
Command Bridge                1              1      80   19500        
    Holographic               1              1            4875        
Comp         CORE/100        20       100    1             130
Backup Comp  CORE/90         19        90    1             120
    /fib                      1              1             125   
                      
Sensors  Advanced             9         4    1       5       5        6      
Array  Distributed            9         3    1      10      11        
Mineral Detection                                            5        
Extension Net  None                    
Signal Processing  Enhanced   9         2    1       2       8        2      
Shallow Pen Suite             9         1   10       5       1      
Countermeasures  Military     9         2    1      15      28        2                            
Staterooms                 100%          68000  272000   34000        
Common Areas                25%       25%    1   68000    6800        
Escape Capsule                1         136000   68000    2720        
Briefing Room                20             20      80      10        
Library                      10             10      40      40        
Medical Bay  5% of crew       1            680    2720    1360         
Workshop                     10             10      60       9        
Armoury                       1           2916    2916     729        
Marine Training Facilities   98             98     196      39      196      
Brig                         10             10      40       3        
Low Berths                   10        10    1       5       1        1      
Cargo                                            82117          
Cargo Crane                   1              1     270     270        
Cargo Net                                            5          
Collapsible Fuel Tank     50000          50000     500      25        
                      
Shipyard                 125000         125000  250000  125000   250000        25000  
Manufactoring Specialist 250000          10000  166667  166667   333333        13889  
Smelter                 1000000          40000  400000  200000   400000         8000  
Mineral Refinery        2000000         160000   80000  160000    80000         1600  
                      
 
                      
Craft          100 dT        10             10    1100     275                    50  
                35 dT        10             10     385      96                    30  
                      
                                       
                      
Crew               68000                  
  Command           3239                  
  Bridge              10                  
      Pilot                  1                
      Astrogator             1                
      Sensor & EW            8
  Engineer         13369  
      Engineer           10768,1
      Maintenance         2600,0
  Service           1836  
      Admin               1300,0
      Medic                535,2
      Steward                0,0
  Gunner    
  Flight              80  
  Workers          48489  
  Troops             977  
Can perform yearly maintenance and repairs for 10 - 20 battleships à GCr 100, so almost the same cost for the shipyard as for the battleships.
Can produce in the region of 5000 dT = 60000 missiles per day, so can restock 10 missile battleships in about five weeks.
Lots of estimates used to dimension and crew the ship.
Last edited by AnotherDilbert on Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:26 pm

I think we can agree that mobile factory ships are too expensive to be practical. In wartime we would need 1 per 10 fighting ships and the factory ships would be more expensive than the warships combined.

We would also be slowed down to one jump per two weeks, normally warships could jump every week.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby phavoc » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:01 pm

msprange wrote:There are a lot of assumptions made in the refinery rules, such as the space station is being parked in the right place in the right system to take advantage of natural resources. So, this would be very much a referee decision.

Still, on the note of a self-sustaining fleet, the other resource you would have to renew is crew. Could be done on the worlds the fleet visits and the ships it runs across. I believe the Royal Navy had a similar policy in the 18th Century :)
The Royal Navy ran on impressment gangs, rum, sodomy and the lash. One out four of those items sounds rather appealing!
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby PsiTraveller » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:44 pm

I like some of the implications for a ship like this. It could be used to create and implement a high technology defensive location by building SDB's or defense satellites. A ship like this would have all the technological updates needed to maintain the high tech fleet that it supports, even out in the Wilds.

Look at the Drinax campaign. The second adventure has a treasure ship waiting for weeks for a repair ship to arrive and get its engine up and running. Militarily this is a disaster.

I've asked about the economics before, and there are none in the game really. How many tons of common raw material make a ton of advanced manufacturing? It is an impossible concept to condense down into a game. The descriptions in the Space Port section mention Drone ships flitting about to bring in ore and fuel. I'm just trying to make a military logistical ship act like the old army days when an army would scavenge everything in its path, and 30 miles on each side of anything it could get to feed the men passing through.

I am applying that concept to a fleet coming into a system and grabbing atmosphere from a gas giant. They could make fuel, or with a modified chemical module and a methane gas giant they could make plastics, explosives, textiles for uniforms, battle armour if they make it from densified plastics, etc.

Asteroids could provide metals or organics. Moons could be mined as well.

Ignoring the magic of mining robots only producing pure product and having no dross or wasted material, or even a percentage yield. At the tech levels we are talking about, how self sufficient could a fleet be? (Aside from the need to bring in more bodies.)

On a side not, For a hilarious read about replacing people lost on Away Missions, "Redshirts" by Scalzi looks at life from the view of the redshirts on an away mission.

The Zhodani could use a ship like this to really make a push towards the Core.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby phavoc » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:31 am

PsiTraveller wrote:I like some of the implications for a ship like this. It could be used to create and implement a high technology defensive location by building SDB's or defense satellites. A ship like this would have all the technological updates needed to maintain the high tech fleet that it supports, even out in the Wilds.

Look at the Drinax campaign. The second adventure has a treasure ship waiting for weeks for a repair ship to arrive and get its engine up and running. Militarily this is a disaster.

I've asked about the economics before, and there are none in the game really. How many tons of common raw material make a ton of advanced manufacturing? It is an impossible concept to condense down into a game. The descriptions in the Space Port section mention Drone ships flitting about to bring in ore and fuel. I'm just trying to make a military logistical ship act like the old army days when an army would scavenge everything in its path, and 30 miles on each side of anything it could get to feed the men passing through.

I am applying that concept to a fleet coming into a system and grabbing atmosphere from a gas giant. They could make fuel, or with a modified chemical module and a methane gas giant they could make plastics, explosives, textiles for uniforms, battle armour if they make it from densified plastics, etc.

Asteroids could provide metals or organics. Moons could be mined as well.

Ignoring the magic of mining robots only producing pure product and having no dross or wasted material, or even a percentage yield. At the tech levels we are talking about, how self sufficient could a fleet be? (Aside from the need to bring in more bodies.)

On a side not, For a hilarious read about replacing people lost on Away Missions, "Redshirts" by Scalzi looks at life from the view of the redshirts on an away mission.

The Zhodani could use a ship like this to really make a push towards the Core.
In a game with no real economic modeling, this completely fits. But keep in mind if you adopt this model, most interstellar trade between advanced planets would come to a halt, as every system that can afford it's own resource gathering ships would not need trade, except for luxury items. If you don't worry about that, then it's a perfectly acceptable model.

And the Zho have yet to have a successful push to the Core... not sure it's because they run out of spanners half-way there or not.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby PsiTraveller » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:57 am

Well the need to actually have trade is somewhat baffling. If there are moons, asteroid belts and gas giants to choose from in system what DO you need to bring in from elsewhere? Lanthanum if you need more drives or other rare items. Beyond that there seems little point.

Look at earth and the research into post scarcity. the knowledge to be incredibly self reliant is out there. It is just not being implemented.

But this is a game and we just ignore all the high tech implications and hand wave it away because we want to have fun with our friends. So we have gravitic control and robots and Jump Drives and trade between planets, and mining drones that only get finished metal and no rubble or rock to handle afterwards. I'm good with it.

Throw in Collector Technology and Psion based drives and the Jump Engine is a quaint holdover, useful for giving the occasional extra oomph.

So we take the ideas and create a fleet that harvests what it needs to sustain itself as it proceeds majestically across the depths of space, refurbishing and rebuilding itself as it grandly progresses to its final destination, wherever that may be.
or it becomes the dreaded scourge that feeds on everything in its path and patches the wounds it takes by cannibalizing the ships it destroys. Everything becomes food for the implacable appetite for destruction the Forever Fleet has.

Either idea can be used for some sort of adventure.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:22 am

Only if we do not consider economy. Freight is cheap. Comparative advantages makes everyone better off with trade.

Autarky, like in North Korea, leads to poverty.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby IanBruntlett » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:34 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:Only if we do not consider economy. Freight is cheap. Comparative advantages makes everyone better off with trade.

Autarky, like in North Korea, leads to poverty.
Well Capitalism is struggling too. At one end of the spectrum you've got all those Billionaires. At the other end you've got people working on zero-hour contracts, struggling to pay their bills.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby Condottiere » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:54 pm

Shipping still takes time, compared to local manufacturing, which can be customized to precisely fit an order.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby phavoc » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:19 pm

Condottiere wrote:Shipping still takes time, compared to local manufacturing, which can be customized to precisely fit an order.
True, but that's been the case since the beginning of trade. There are some facets of an economy where trade makes sense, and other parts where it does not. Economists would argue that nations should stop 'ruinious' trade barriers to basic foodstuffs that a nation may or may not be able to grow, and concentrate on what grows best in their climate/soil.

But economists don't live in the real world. Growing your own food to meet your basic caloric needs is also a matter of state security, i.e. if you can be starved out, you are vulnerable to a potential enemy.

Also Traveller doesn't model the required underlying support structure necessary to build/support things. Ethiopa flies 777s and other similar countries fly 787's, some of the most advanced aircraft in the world. And they do maintenance on them, at least basic stuff. So while the can repair things, they do not have the national infrastructure either logistically, educationally or even materially, to build aircraft like that. Even shipping in components to be mated together can be challenging fora nation that has none of the underlying support structures to do so.

And that's why trade exists today, yesterday and probably in the 52nd century too. Even ST, with it's magical replicators, had trade.

So to keep on topic, maybe you have your construction fleet coming along with your invasion fleet. Your fleet exhausts it's supply of ammunition in battle. Your construction fleet says "hey, we've got rocks, we've got gas giants, we can make new ammo for everyone!". And four to six months later you have your ammunition bunkers full again.

OR you could have simply brought a few ammunition transports up from your fleet base (or your fleet train) and resupplied your war fleet in a couple of days. Meanwhile your infrastructure to support all this is safely weeks away from the front lines while your manufacturing fleet is a sweeeet target of opportunity for an enemy looking to cripple your attack.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby PsiTraveller » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:55 pm

Well that depends on how you slice the numbers on your production system phavoc.
Assume a TL 14 system because it allows for the high tech bonuses etc.
Assume the Vulcan class mobile repair and production facility is a massive ship designed to travel with the Tank rons and support section of the fleet. It is protected by the screening elements.
The ship costs a lot, but what can it bring to the table?

I asked about smelting and refining at the start of the thread. A 1000 ton facility can produce a lot of material.
Lets put in 500 tons of Advanced Production capacity.
At Tl 13 the production rate is tripled to 3 tons of goods per 25 tons of plant. So 500 tons of space produces 60 tons a day of materials. Advanced production includes weapons from the chart on pg 71. We will ignore the 25 percent increase by claiming the ship is High Tech.
60 tons a day of goods, with advanced missiles being 12 missiles a ton. That is 720 missiles a day of production. That may only be part of a salvo, but it saves the logistical movement, ship tonnage, fuel and crew for 5000 missiles a week. That is 147 million Credits of missiles a week. That pays for a lot of ship. Add in the fuel processing and ship repair time and your forge ship can really have an impact.

Throw in a construction deck to replace fighters lost and thaw out more pilots and you can keep you fighter swarm at full capacity.
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Re: How many Crew for Smelters

Postby phavoc » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:19 am

PsiTraveller wrote:Well that depends on how you slice the numbers on your production system phavoc.
Assume a TL 14 system because it allows for the high tech bonuses etc.
Assume the Vulcan class mobile repair and production facility is a massive ship designed to travel with the Tank rons and support section of the fleet. It is protected by the screening elements.
The ship costs a lot, but what can it bring to the table?

I asked about smelting and refining at the start of the thread. A 1000 ton facility can produce a lot of material.
Lets put in 500 tons of Advanced Production capacity.
At Tl 13 the production rate is tripled to 3 tons of goods per 25 tons of plant. So 500 tons of space produces 60 tons a day of materials. Advanced production includes weapons from the chart on pg 71. We will ignore the 25 percent increase by claiming the ship is High Tech.
60 tons a day of goods, with advanced missiles being 12 missiles a ton. That is 720 missiles a day of production. That may only be part of a salvo, but it saves the logistical movement, ship tonnage, fuel and crew for 5000 missiles a week. That is 147 million Credits of missiles a week. That pays for a lot of ship. Add in the fuel processing and ship repair time and your forge ship can really have an impact.

Throw in a construction deck to replace fighters lost and thaw out more pilots and you can keep you fighter swarm at full capacity.
I'm not disputing your by-the-book numbers, but I would dispute any logic behind them. Just by using this here, you have no actual costs associated with building anything, just tonnage. Which would mean that by these rules you could mine and construct anything, thus you essentially have a von neumann machine that can replicate itself over and over and over. By the book rules you have a great thing here. But by logical rules you just broke every mercantile concept in Traveller. No longer would anyone trade, a planet or system would just obtain a single manufacturing ship and it would first build copies of itself, and then it could build anything a system needed. You wouldn't even need asteroids under this, you could essentially dismantle entire planets.

It's VERY science-FICTIONY, which is probably why it ended up in the book.

And such a USEFUL ship would definitely be a high priority strike target for any enemy. Of course the ship could just build massive numbers of defenders to protect itself... :)

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