Cruisers!

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Chas
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby Chas » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:27 am

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Chas wrote:What basis are you using AnotherDilbert? Getting equivalent firepower into a J4 vs. J3 cruiser? That you can build J3 at budget while you are using all tech upgrades for J4?
The same spinal (so firepower), the same tech upgrades, just bigger to accommodate more jump fuel. Basically I seem to be getting X tons + 80% overhead (J3) versus X tons + 90% overhead (J4).

Maybe I should be more aggressive with tech upgrades to shrink the J4 ship?
Yeah, it's a tricky balance. In this case I've usually gone the route of being aggressive as possible with the tech upgrades, kept the tonnage the same and then looked to see how the relative firepower is vs. the J3, accepting that it will be down a notch for the sake of having the more mobile platform. Of course in this situation having the more mobile platform is a choice of trade off for the same TL and for the Imperial Navy it should have the budget to allow it to drive high tech. What I dislike seeing is the TL 12 ship J3 outfighting the TL15 J4 ship. That's when I think the rules are not all they should be :wink:
Chas
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby Chas » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:36 pm

I'll put in the link to this old thread on a torpedo (what is now termed a) cruiser and some of the issues to watch.

viewtopic.php?f=149&t=117365
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:28 pm

Chas wrote:In this case I've usually gone the route of being aggressive as possible with the tech upgrades, kept the tonnage the same and then looked to see how the relative firepower is vs. the J3, accepting that it will be down a notch for the sake of having the more mobile platform.
That is perhaps a simpler comparison.
Chas wrote:What I dislike seeing is the TL 12 ship J3 outfighting the TL15 J4 ship. That's when I think the rules are not all they should be :wink:
That has always been a problem with CT Bk2 and systems like it (that has minimal TL differences). I agree that it is a problem, and MgT2 suffers from it. Changing that would require major changes to the ship design system and combat system. I guess it's too late...
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:39 pm

Chas wrote:I'll put in the link to this old thread on a torpedo (what is now termed a) cruiser and some of the issues to watch.

viewtopic.php?f=149&t=117365
The issue remains the same. Mongoose seems to want it that way... Well, it's good news for the Sword Worlds.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:08 pm

Here's another version of the J-3 Particle BB from last page. This time keeping the tonnage constant, upgrading to Fuel efficient J-4 drives. So for I get half the firepower for 110% of the cost, meh. Fuel Efficient jump drives are clearly superior for J-4, but not for J-3.

Light Particle Battleship 135 kT, Crew: 2600, GCr 115
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Spinal Particle (5DD), 660 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, ten 1000 dT modules.

Code: Select all

TL 15                  HullP 90000                114 338      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                       135000           27000   1350  
Config  Streamlined          2     2                 8700      
Hull strength  Standard      2     2            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15        16200   10440      
Rad Shielding                1     1         3375      

JumpD  VAdv,2*FuelEff        4     4    1   13505   25322   54000         386
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff      9     9    1   12150   30375   60750         347
PowerP                                  1    7114   14227  142270         203
                  
Drop Tank Collar             4     4    1     216     108      
Fuel, Jump                   4     4    1   48600        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     711        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1    2430     122      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80    1013      
    Holographic              1          1             253      
Comp         CORE/100       30   100    1     130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1      30      
    /fib                     1          1      80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40      42      
Extension Net                  
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100%  1421 1421    5684     711      
Common Areas               12%   12%    1     682      68      
Briefing Room               10         10      40       5      
Library                     10         10      40      40      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         53     212     106      
Workshop                    10         10      60       9      
Armoury                      1        105     210      53      
Brig                        10         10      40       3      
Low Berths                 100        100      50       5      10    
Cargo                                2232        
UNREP                  
                  
1000 dT Module              10         10   10000           33000    550  
                  
Spinal  Particle             5     5    1   14000    6500    5000    140  140

Turret    Accurate,HYield              
Particle  HighTechnology   660  TL14  660     660   12540   16500    660  660


                  
Crew              2605  
  Command          237  
  Bridge             4  
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           1
  Sensor & EW      122  
  Engineer        1207  
      Engineer           936
      Maintenance        270
  Service          155  
      Admin              135
      Medic               19,56666667
      Steward              0
  Gunner           880  
  Flight    
  Troops             0  
2200 dT free for supplies and small craft.

For defences or special purposes ten 1000 dT modules are provided for. Power is available for all modules. Modules must include living space for any crew.

Modules include:
PD: 55 PD Batteries, Type III, MCr 1210
Meson Screen: 110 Meson Screens, MCr 3328
Nuclear Damper: 110 Dampers, MCr 1678
Fighter Bay: 12 Fighters (35 dT), MCr 188 w/o fighters
Drone Bay: 500 drones (1.8 dT), MCr 2700 w drones
Missile Bay: 426 missiles/attack, MCr 665 + MCr 2300 for the missiles
Boat Bay: 500 dT hangars, 100 staterooms, 100 dT cargo, MCr 150
Flag Bridge: Flag bridge, spacious quarters for 100 officers, 200 dT boat bay, MCr 185
Barracks: Barracks for a light battalion (370 men), MCr 88
Chas
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby Chas » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:25 pm

Yep. I'm doing a bunch of building around the smaller end seeing what works at the 2 to 10k range for various designs and the Jump 4 true cruiser in approved formal naval parlance "sucks".

Not going to work going small on a cruiser cruiser - a ship that would have a few bells and whistles as well as a Jump 4 able to travel on long voyages with the cargo and other things it will need like a ships boat and marines. It'll need to be big and not a ship of the line type.

Which isn't the end of the world actually. A 50K ship with a weak spinal and all the toys for gun boat diplomacy will have a valid role and be in line with original High Guard.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:38 pm

That's what the more exotic modules are for on my larger ships. When not at war with any major power I assume the larger ships will carry a few marine and boat bay modules, to be able to interface with civilians.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:18 pm

The "Hakkapeliitta" is a true light cruiser intended for raiding, not pitched battle. Puts mobility first with J-4 and streamlining to be able to refuel quickly everywhere. Excellent sensors and ECM. Extensive onboard storage (900 dT) for long patrols, possibly behind enemy lines. 50 marines and a few small craft. Extra crew in low berths. Backup computer and sensors.

"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 650, GCr 19.5
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 20 medium Fusion bays (Long Range, HiYield), 130 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Accurate) turrets.

Code: Select all

TL 15                   HullP 12500                19 488      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        25000            5000    250  
Config  Close Structure      4     4                 1500      
Hull strength  Reinforced    3     3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15         3000    1800      
Rad Shielding                1     1                  625      
Repair Drones                1          1     250      50
                  
JumpD  VAdv,2*RedSize        4     4    1    2004    3758   10000          57
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff     9     9    1    2250    5625   11250          64
PowerP  TL12,3*RedSize                  1    1049    1573   22470          30
                  
Drop Tank Collar             4     4    1      40      20      
Fuel, Jump                   4     4    1   10000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     105        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1     500      25      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80     188      
    Holographic              1          1              47      
Comp         CORE/100       50   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  m/15 /bis /fib  3    15    1               4      
Evade/3           25                                    3      
AdvFireControl/3  30                                   18      
Point Defence/2   15                                   12      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40      42      
Extension Net                9     1    1     250     250      
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100%   354  354    1416     177      
Common Areas               25%   25%    1     354      35      
Briefing Room                2          2       8       1      
Library                      2          2       8       8      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         13      52      26      
Workshop                     2          2      12       2      
Armoury                      1         36      36       9      
Training Facility           10         10      20       4      20
Brig                         2          2       8       1      
Low Berths                 400        400     200      20      40    
Cargo                                         903        

Medium Bay                  
Fusion  High Technology     20  TL15   20    2000     480    1600     20   20
Turret                  
Particle  High Technology  130  TL14  130     130    2470    3250    130  130
Pulse Laser Very Advanced  100  TL11  100     100     475    1300    100  100
                  
                  
Craft          35,5 dT       2          2     142      28                   8
                  
                  

                  
Crew                648              
  Command            59              
  Bridge             24              
      Pilot                 3            
      Astrogator            1            
      Sensor & EW          20              
  Engineer          202              
      Engineer            151            
      Maintenance          50            
  Service            30              
      Admin                25            
      Medic                 4,8667            
      Steward               0            
  Gunner            275              
  Flight              8              
  Troops             50
50 marines and a few small craft to transport them.
400 Low Berths for frozen watch, prize crews, and prisoners.
Chas
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby Chas » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:44 pm

The T2. Doesn't have the bells and whistles of the true light cruiser raider and in the effort to get <10K for Jump 4 has to give up its budget build items. Still a reasonable niche location between the T1 frigate and the light cruiser - functional and can go places.

Image
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:31 pm

Chaz makes good points. A scouting/raider should be stealthed. Especially against merchantmen of a few TL lower it would be effective.

When we are far from friendly port I would not want any single point of failure. The drives are too big to backup, but computers and sensors should be duplicated. Especially I'm worried about you single small craft, if it malfunctions or is shot up it leaves you with a big problem.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:18 pm

Draft 2, after design review by naval architecture bureau "Chas". Added stealth, added ortillery, squeezed the size, increased cost 20%. The Naval Appropriations Committee will not be amused...

The "Hakkapeliitta" is a true light cruiser intended for scouting and raiding, not pitched battle. Puts mobility first with J-4 and streamlining to be able to refuel quickly everywhere. Good sensors and ECM. Basic stealth and EM masking, stealth jump drive. Extensive onboard storage (500 dT) for long patrols, possibly behind enemy lines. 50 marines and a few small craft. Extra crew in low berths. Backup computer and sensors.

"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 680, GCr 23.8
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 16 medium Fusion bays (Long Range, ReducedSize), 2 small Ortillery bays (3*ReducedSize), 132 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Accurate) turrets.

Code: Select all

TL 15                   HullP 12500                23 741      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        25000            5000    250  
Config  Streamlined          2     2                 1500      
Hull strength  Standard      2     2            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15         3000    1800      
Rad Shielding                1     1                  625      
EM Shielding                 1     1          500    1000      
Stealth  Stealth             1     1                 2500      
Repair Drones                1     1          250      50      
                  
JumpD  VAdv,Stealth          4     4    1    2505    4697   10000          72
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff     9     9    1    2250    5625   11250          64
PowerP  TL12,3*RedSize                  1    1037    1556   22231          30
                  
Drop Tank Collar             4     4    1      40      20      
Fuel, Jump                   4     4    1   10000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     104        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1     500      25      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80     188      
    Holographic              1          1              47      
Comp         CORE/100       50   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/50 fib    10    50    1              45      
Evade/3           25                                    3      
AdvFireControl/3  30                                   18      
Point Defence/2   15                                   12      
EW/3              20                                   24      
AutoRepair/2      20                                   10      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      20      21      
Extension Net                  
Shallow Penetration Suite    9     1    2      20      10       1    
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    

                  
Staterooms                100%   372  372    1488     186      
Common Areas               25%   25%    1     372      37      
Briefing Room                2          2       8       1      
Library                      2          2       8       8      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         14      56      28      
Workshop                     2          2      12       2      
Armoury                      1         38      38      10      
Training Facility           10         10      20       4      20    
Brig                         2          2       8       1      
Low Berths                 400        400     200      20      40    
Cargo                                 549        

Medium Bay                  
Fusion  Very Advanced       16  TL14   16    1440     320    1280     16   32
Small Bay                  
Mass Driver HighTechnology   2  TL11    2      70     120      30      2    2
Turret                  
Particle    HighTechnology 132  TL14  132     132    2508    3300    132  132
Pulse Laser Very Advanced  100  TL11  100     100     475    1300    100  100
                                 
Craft  35,5 dT Full Hangar   1          1      71      14                   2
       35,5 dT Docking Space 2          2      78      20                   4
                  
                  
                  
Crew               682              
  Command           62              
  Bridge            24              
      Pilot                3            
      Astrogator           1            
      Sensor & EW         20              
  Engineer         216              
      Engineer           165            
      Maintenance         50            
  Service           31              
      Admin               25
      Medic                5,11667
      Steward              0
  Gunner           293  
  Flight             6  
  Troops            50  
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:07 pm

Draft 3, after our spies told us that a potential enemy had heard of our reliance on fusion weapons and were planning to install nuclear dampers on their ships. Some "Firepower, dammit!" aligned admirals decried the lack of Big Guns which could threat bigger ships. As a result the fusion bays were scrapped and replaced with big "Crit Fisher" Particles. An extended sensor net was snuck back in when everybody else was heatedly arguing about armaments. Storage space was sacrificed.

The "Hakkapeliitta" is a true light cruiser intended for scouting and raiding, not pitched battle. Puts mobility first with J-4 and streamlining to be able to refuel quickly everywhere. Excellent sensors and ECM. Basic stealth and EM masking, stealth jump drive. Onboard storage (300 dT) for long patrols, possibly behind enemy lines. 50 marines and a few small craft. Extra crew in low berths. Backup computer and sensors.

"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 670, GCr 22 in bulk
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 3 large particle bays (Accurate, High Yield), 2 small Ortillery bays (3*ReducedSize), 133 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Long Range, High Yield) turrets.

Code: Select all

TL 15                   HullP 12500                24 420      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        25000            5000    250  
Config  Streamlined          2     2                 1500      
Hull strength  Standard      2     2            
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15         3000    1800      
Rad Shielding                1     1                  625      
EM Shielding                 1     1          500    1000      
Stealth  Stealth             1     1                 2500      
Repair Drones                1     1          250      50      
                  
JumpD  VAdv,Stealth          4     4    1    2505    4697   10000          72
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff     9     9    1    2250    5625   11250          64
PowerP  TL12,3*RedSize                  1    1007    1510   21576          29
                  
Drop Tank Collar             4     4    1      40      20      
Fuel, Jump                   4     4    1   10000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     101        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1     500      25      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80     188      
    Holographic              1          1              47      
Comp         CORE/100       50   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/50 fib    10    50    1              45      
Evade/3           25                                    3      
FireControl/5     25                                   10
AdvFireControl/3  30                                   18      
Point Defence/2   15                                   12      
EW/3              20                                   24      
AutoRepair/2      20                                   10      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10      11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      20      21      
Extension Net                     
Shallow Penetration Suite    9     1    2      20      10       1    
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4      16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30      56       2    

                  
Staterooms                100%   366  366    1464     183
Common Areas               25%   25%    1     366      37
Briefing Room                2          2       8       1      
Library                      2          2       8       8      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         14      56      28      
Workshop                     2          2      12       2      
Armoury                      1         38      38      10      
Training Facility           10         10      20       4      20    
Brig                         2          2       8       1      
Low Berths                 340        340     170      17      34
Cargo                                         502    

Large Bay   
Particle HiTech:Acc,HiYield  3  TL14    3    1500     540     600     15   12
Small Bay               
Mass Driver HiTech:3*SizeRed 2  TL11    2      70     120      30      2    2
Turret               
Particle HiTech:Acc,HiYiel 133  TL14  133     133    2527    3325    133  133
Pulse Laser HiTech:LRan,HY 100  TL11  100     100     475    1300    100  100
   
Screen  Meson                
        Nuclear Damp 3*Size 10         10      70     150     200          10
                             
Craft  35,5 dT Full Hangar   1          1      71      14                   2
       35,5 dT Docking Space 2          2      78      20                   4
                  
                  
                  
Crew               670              
  Command           61              
  Bridge            37              
      Pilot                3            
      Astrogator           1            
      Sensor & EW         20              
  Engineer         215              
      Engineer           165            
      Maintenance         50            
  Service           31              
      Admin               25
      Medic                5,025
      Steward              0
  Gunner           283  
  Flight             6  
  Troops            50 
The Large Particle bays has about 4% (at Very Long Range) chance of hitting and destroying something vital per shot. This will make warships and large merchantmen notice that they are shot at. A CruRon will seriously threaten a battleship.

Very light missile defences, if threatened by missile boats we will have to run away...
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:20 pm

And with better armament the Hakkapeliitta can even take on Chas' T2 destroyer. Well until next beta release when my weaponry will (hopefully) be nerfed...
Chas
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby Chas » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:03 pm

So this is where I think the Imperial Navy ships of the line will have a sweet spot. I'll call this a 2+2 configuration. It's termed a battle cruiser because it's fast with a full J4 capability. It has jump 2 tanks which go with it, and it is M7 with them on. Still more than enough to get about to refuel and what not if having to make multijump voyages to get somewhere. Before arrival to a battle field the drop tanks get dropped and then the vessel is a true 100,000 ton ship with Jump 2 still on board i.e. it has the Jump 2 in and Jump 2 out capability. Typically the drop tanks get left behind at the last jump location before heading into battle to be recovered later.

I have a bunch of designs to come along in this vein and others using drop tanks which the Imperial Navy will be using to their fullest. This is a good start I think, it is not a true battle wagon, but this ship is definitely something more than a heavy cruiser by a healthy chunk, especially once it tips the scales at the 100K hull point bonus. Serious mobile firepower where a batron of these will be a major strategic element.

***

The Hades Battle Cruiser is an ugly blocky brute of ship that is aptly termed a flying brick.

Image

As an interesting point of design once the spinals do get signed off on, it will be a tough choice with these builds just how much weight to allocate to the scaling spinal. Normally I would include a meson in this I think, but the largest particle is a good point of reference as I doubt it will want to go much more than this. Still have 500 tons spare for amoured bulkheads (jump drives or fuel excepted and let's see the final fall out of the crits) or some redundant systems. Still a couple of tweaks needed in that sheet.

(and where were those updated sensor operator rules again?)
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:58 pm

Ingenious use of drop tanks, but operationally risky. One enemy destroyer in the wrong place and your drop tanks are history. Then you have to limp home to a major starport to make new tanks, not instant.

If you are surprised by enemy presence when you jump into a system you have to release your tanks for battle, if you then lose the battle your survivors have to jump out without the tanks.

The spinal rules does not say max 8DD particle, they say max 28000 dT. Guess how big a TL15 10DD particle spinal is?

I think you are light on missile defences. You can kill ~1725 missiles. If you just switched your armament for missile bays you would be able to launch 10000 missiles / attack. You need to be able to stop most of that...
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:42 pm

I would prefer to do something like this:

Code: Select all

TL 15             HullP 73333                      81 969      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                       100000           20000   1000  
Config  Close Structure      4     4                 5500      
Armour  Bonded Superdense   20    15        12000    6600      
                  
JumpD  VAdv,2*FuelEff        3     4    1   10279   19273   41096         294
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff     9     9    1    9000   22500   45000         257
PowerP                                  1    4124    8247   82470         118
                  
Drop Tank Collar             3     3    1     148      74      
Drop Tank       36986 dT                              925
Fuel, Jump                   3     3    1   27000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     412        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1    1350      68      
We can do J-3 with the tanks attached and arrive with the internal tanks full. We can do another J-2 on the internal tankage or another J-3 if we drop the tanks.
We can do J-4 if we drop the tanks and arrive with the internal tanks full. We can do another J-3 on the internal tankage.
This way we can operate normally with J-3, and if engaged in battle we drop the tanks and we can jump back out again.
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:24 pm

I see that you could save a few GCr at very little cost in tonnage by using a size reduced jump drive, instead of fuel efficient.

(Jump Drives cost 1,5 MCr/ton, not 2).
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby Chas » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:35 pm

I prefer the 2+2 mix for Hades. It's faster working J4 always in the critical internal repositioning of fleet elements in the Imperium or getting to the battle front in a timely fashion and definitely want to take the extra fire power that it provides, there's over 6000 tons difference in armaments between the two vessels. These are primarily space superiority designs to win a battle. And they won't be surprised by anything, except in some extraordinary circumstance, (which for the most part will be avoidable) not with the sensor drone mesh that all my fleets will be accompanied by :wink: They could be vulnerable to a special sniping run, but again, these are supposed to be a fleet element and will have supporting ships at need.

Take the point about the particle accelerator but what I've fitted in there is about as big as I think I want to put in regardless, though I'm happy to return to that discussion - it will be one of the key points of debate.

I'll wait for the barrage rules on missiles before rebuilding this. I'll come back to it and the balance of nuclear dampers as well. An all missile attack just using advanced missiles rather than nuclear is what I'm hoping will be the way it plays out at TL15 on a fleet scale. Though given the nature of the ship I probably will increase the missile defences but I'd see this ship as specifically being accompanied by PD escorts if these work out. Need to get a design up on that actually.

One other key point for discussion here is crew size. At the 100k level the crew really cut into the tonnage as the size overruns what you can do with software and the 2x gunners/hardpoint becomes a reality. That's actually the reason for the high missile turret numbers on the ship. You can Virtual Crew 0 these and then run your launch solution to get them off, saving a serious chunk of tons of staterooms. Again there's more tactical considerations here in terms of bandwidth available, but I'm seeing the ship launching missiles at very long range and above and then focusing on the spinals etc once in close. The actual balance here needs review, but again it's a very good argument for specialist ships and escort ships filling in niches to get the optimum match of capability. We need to see how this works going to super dreadnought level, but the crew numbers work against a ship from here on up.

Noted on the jump cost, thanks. One day, one cold frozen day in the firey pits of the nether regions, I'll have a sheet without any bugs in it. :evil:
Last edited by Chas on Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:10 am, edited 4 times in total.
Chas
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby Chas » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:01 am

... (accidental double quote)...
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Re: Cruisers!

Postby AnotherDilbert » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:57 am

Chas wrote:And they won't be surprised by anything, except in some extraordinary circumstance, (which for the most part will be avoidable) not with the sensor drone mesh that all my fleets will be accompanied by :wink:
I agree tactical surprise shouldn't be a problem. But if you jump into a system and the enemy jumps into the same system, perhaps a few days earlier, you do have a problem. Your intel of neighbouring systems are at best one week old.
Chas wrote:Noted on the jump cost, thanks. One day, one cold frozen day in the firey pits of the nether regions, I'll have a sheet without any bugs in it. :evil:
No you won't, that doesn't exist. Paranoia is your friend.


Of course everything will change with the fleet scale rules. Hopefully the next beta will also fix crew requirements. I admit that I don't include two gunners per turret in my designs, I use one gunner per turret and add 10% to make sure I have enough gunners when I go to battle stations.

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