Fighters!Fighters!Fighters!

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Chas
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Fighters!Fighters!Fighters!

Postby Chas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:43 am

A thread for putting up and discussing the merits and tactics of various designs.

Let me kick this off with 3 torpedo bomber designs. As being a bit different I think as most people I suspect have been looking the strike fusion versions or similar.

You'll note I've made these fully automated. These are crewless designs. Which is not optimal, especially for the heavy versions, still I still like them.

I was interested in the breakdown between the 40ton variant (maximum firepower for tonnage) vs. the more survivable 70 ton heavy variant.

I have done these 3 variations based on the concept of having the small version being a vessel to swarm out ahead of an assault carrier to deal with pesky low PD threats like battle riders, and/or soften up the enemy before the main assault arrives. This would stay around the mother ship for cover in this instance, the running out of sight point in the other thread. Or, and what I'd like to play out, is hit and run - shoot up into very long range, fire, and then run away from the incoming missiles.

The heavy version was just an exercise in seeing what could be done to make a tough version with nuclear damper, full EW options etc and see how it compares.

The pursuit version took a hit with the last rules rework and the thrust fuel advantage reduction. This is the ship that shoots out after some vessel running away - but perhaps will want full long range missiles for this. Depends, you will get a short window to attack, a big bang may be better, and the missile turret is still there for jump breakers or whatnot.

Not perfect. Close enough and want to get these up.

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by Chas on Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:28 pm

Modular Heavy Fighter with 3 modular turrets, and a single 6 dT module. Cost MCr 99,2.
M-Drive 9, Reaction drive 16 with 7 rounds of fuel.
Armour 15, Hull 33

Code: Select all

TL 15                                   Hull  99,2           -3  
                                        33,6
                      Desired  Rat  #  dTonn  Cost  Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                    70,0          14    
Config  Close Structure    4    4              6,3      
HullStrength  Reinforced   3    3            
Armour  BondedSuperdense  20   15        8,4   7,6      
Rad Shielding              1    1              1,8      
                  
ManœuvreD HiTech,3*EneEff  9    9   1    6,3  18,9    16            0
PowerP                              1    3,1   6,3    63            0
                  
Fuel, Power                4   13   1    1,0        
                  
ReactionD HiTech,3*FuelEf 16   16   1   22,4   6,7                  1
ReactionFuel   7,0 turns   1    1       13,7        
                  
Bridge                     1    1        6,0   0,4      
    Holographic            1    1              0,1      
Comp  CORE/40              8   40   1         45,0      
    /bis                  
    /fib                  
                  
Sensors  Basic                      1          
Array  None                
Extension Net                  
Signal Processing  None                
Countermeasures  None                
                  
Module                                   6,0        
                                    
Turret                  
Fusion  Advanced           2   TL15  2   2,0   4,8    20      2      2
Pulse  Very Advanced       1   TL11  1   1,0   1,5     4      1      1
Default Crew:
Pilot/Commander
3 Gunners
Possible Sensor Operator on bridge
Possible Engineer

Modules include:
Sensor: Improved sensors, EnhancedSP, Sensor Station. MCr 13.
ECM: CM suite, EnhancedSP, 2 Sensor Stations, Power 3. MCr 13.
Marine: 12 seats in acceleration benches, Breaching Tube. MCr 3.
ExtendedOps: 6t Stateroom (double&hot bunking). MCr 1.
Fuel: 6t fuel. MCr 0.

Turretmodules include:
Single Fusion: Power 10, MCr 2,4.
Single Pulse Laser: Power 4. MCr 1,5

Power included for 3 Fusion turret modules and ECM module.

(Edit: added sensor module.)
Last edited by AnotherDilbert on Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:58 pm

Chas wrote:40 dT Torpedo Bomber
I was checking to see if we agree how to build fighters. Some nitpicks, sorry.
You have 17 Hullpoints, 19 with Reinforced hull.
You always need 1 dT power plant fuel, but you can probably burn that in the reaction drives.
You could Tech upgrade the barbette to save 30% = 1.5 dT.
Ammo: 3 Torpedoes = 1 dT.
You can't run Launch Control and Evasion at the same time, you could save MCr 15 by choosing a m/30 computer.
Chas
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby Chas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:43 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Chas wrote:40 dT Torpedo Bomber
I was checking to see if we agree how to build fighters. Some nitpicks, sorry.
You have 17 Hullpoints, 19 with Reinforced hull.
You always need 1 dT power plant fuel, but you can probably burn that in the reaction drives.
You could Tech upgrade the barbette to save 30% = 1.5 dT.
Ammo: 3 Torpedoes = 1 dT.
You can't run Launch Control and Evasion at the same time, you could save MCr 15 by choosing a m/30 computer.
No nitpicking here AnotherDilbert, I appreciate someone bothering to look. I got those up while keeping my spreadsheet intact after a couple of iterations of the rules. The hull points got left behind. Torps are right enough. And I had/have some open questions on the software side...

Further to that though, where does it say powerplants are 1dT minimum? I can't find that.
You could Tech upgrade the barbette to save 30% = 1.5 dT.
Yeah. This was something I was thinking about and had intended to make a thread about it. It seems straight forward by the RAW, but I'm not sure there isn't more under the hood. You start shrinking the bay or whatever too much and it seems a bit of a stretch to assume that the missiles or torps aren't being affected also by the size reduction - which implies TL15 specialized missiles/torps. Which isn't in the rule set at all. I guess a bit of handwavium can be applied but not entirely comfortable with it.
Last edited by Chas on Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:52 pm

Modular Heavy Jump Fighter with 3 modular turrets. Cost MCr 131,6.
Streamlined, Fuel Purification, 24 h.
Jump-2, M-Drive 9, Reaction drive 14 with 8 rounds of fuel.
Uses the fuel tankage as either Jump fuel or Reaction fuel. Can refuel in the wilderness.
Armour 15, Hull 43

Code: Select all

TL 15                                  Hull  131,6             -3   
                                      43,56                  
                    Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power   Hardp   Crew
Hull                                   99,0            20      
Config Streamlined       2   2                 8,7         
HullStrength Reinforced  3   3                  
Armour BondedSuperdense 15  15         11,9   10,4         
Rad Shielding            1   1                 2,5         
Repair Drones            1   1          1,0    0,2         
                           
JumpD                    2   2    1    10,0   15,0     20              0
ManœuvreD HiTec,3*EneEf  9   9    1     8,9   26,7     22              0
PowerP                            1     3,6    7,2     72              0
                           
Fuel, Jump               2   2    1     0,4            
Fuel, Power              4  11    1     1,0            
Fuel Purification    24 h   24 h  1     1,0    0,0         
                           
ReactionD HiTech,3*FuelEf   14    1    27,7    8,3                     1
Reaction Fuel   8,0 turns    1    1    19,4            
                           
Bridge, Small            1        1     3,0    0,2         
    Holographic          1        1            0,1         
Comp   CORE/40           8  40    1           45,0         
                           
Sensors   Basic                   1               
                           
Staterooms                        2     8,0    1,0         
Cargo                                   0,1            

Turret                           
Fusion Fusion,Advanced   2 TL15   2     2,0    4,8     20       2      2
Pulse  Pulse,Very Adv    1 TL11   1     1,0    1,5      4       1      1
Default Crew:
Pilot/Navigator/Commander
3 Gunners
Add AstroMech Droids to taste.
2 staterooms, double occupancy.

Turret modules include:
Single Fusion: Power 10, MCr 2,4.
Single Pulse Laser: Power 4. MCr 1,5

Power included for 3 Fusion turret modules. Jump dimming required.

Could even be used for a small adventuring party...
Chas
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby Chas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:59 pm

Yes, the small jump ship has a lot of potential in this version of Traveller. Very nice.

The fusion turrets are from the High Tech chapter?
Jump dimming required.
? not sure what you mean here. I don't think anybody expects to be M9ing when it comes to jump time. The power burn to add jump power points on top of maneuver is hard to justify.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:14 pm

Chas wrote:Further to that though, where does it say powerplants are 1dT minimum? I can't find that.
It's not the power plant, it's the fuel:
HG, p13 wrote:Other power plants require fuel tankage equal to 10% of their size (rounding up, minimum 1 ton). This provides enough fuel for the power plant for a month (four weeks).
Chas wrote:Yeah. This was something I was thinking about and had intended to make a thread about it. It seems straight forward by the RAW, but I'm not sure there isn't more under the hood. You start shrinking the bay or whatever too much and it seems a bit of a stretch to assume that the missiles or torps aren't being affected also by the size reduction - which implies TL15 specialized missiles/torps. Which isn't in the rule set at all. I guess a bit of handwavium can be applied but not entirely comfortable with it.
Yes, you can go too far... E.g. you could possibly tech upgrade a turret for less size, and tech upgrade the weapons for performance, since they are technically different components.
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:19 pm

Chas wrote:The fusion turrets are from the High Tech chapter?
Yes. 4D damage. Requires Long Range upgrade.
Chas wrote:
Jump dimming required.
? not sure what you mean here. I don't think anybody expects to be M9ing when it comes to jump time. The power burn to add jump power points on top of maneuver is hard to justify.
I just wanted to note that all power consumers could not be powered at the same time.

Also note that it is extremely cramped, with Small Bridge, double occupancy for everyone and no added Common Area.
Nerhesi
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby Nerhesi » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:21 pm

I really want to get in on this... and I really want to strangle you both and say lets fix the other outstanding items and wait on cool-design-threads when I have the mindspace for it. Because I love them.

I hate you all. Equally. In a lovey way.
Chas
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby Chas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:23 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Chas wrote:Further to that though, where does it say powerplants are 1dT minimum? I can't find that.
It's not the power plant, it's the fuel:
HG, p13 wrote:Other power plants require fuel tankage equal to 10% of their size (rounding up, minimum 1 ton). This provides enough fuel for the power plant for a month (four weeks).
Hey, I knew that. Remind me to go grab a cup of coffee sometimes before posting and actually read what's in front of me :lol:

As for the missile/torp upgrades I don't think you should be allowed to touch the weapons themselves. They've got inbuilt tech grading themselves i.e. basic to advanced missiles. If I was the ref I might put my pointy toed slipper down on that one.
Chas
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby Chas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:26 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:Also note that it is extremely cramped, with Small Bridge, double occupancy for everyone and no added Common Area.
Bah. Nice hot cup of cement to harden them up and into barracks with the lot.
Chas
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby Chas » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:30 pm

Nerhesi wrote:I really want to get in on this... and I really want to strangle you both and say lets fix the other outstanding items and wait on cool-design-threads when I have the mindspace for it. Because I love them.

I hate you all. Equally. In a lovey way.
There are important rule points coming out of this, I says nodding sagely. 8)

That and I have to admit I needed a break from banging my head against nuclear dampers et al.
wbnc
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby wbnc » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:45 pm

I like he way you have them built.

Only a few thing I'd suggest.

Creating non stealth/Emissions Absorption versions for use when engaging in a stand up fight.a mixed wing of stealth, and normal models would allow a bit of a savings to placate the bean counters..and give a force commander a group of fighter that can maneuver at log range and hopefully get lost in the shuffle, or Maneuvering and firing at standoff distances if possible.

and maybe adding an basic ECM pack if you can wedge it in on the heavier designs. Being able to ECM kill incoming missiles might be more cost effective than hoping the other guy cant get a lock on.

Also,I think in a major fleet engagement they are going to be pretty quick to spot a sizable force of torpedo bombers lurking on the perimeter for an opening. ( this might be a personal taste item on my part, I'm just not a fan of stealth as a standard option on most craft.)

if the rules allow for it, another option would be fighters with PD weapons in close escort, firing on missiles/enemy fighters as they get within range.
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:30 pm

Inspired by Chas' Slinky Boarding Mek:
The Boarding Drone
1.8 dT ≈ 25 m3, so a bit big. MCr 4.8
ManD 4, Armour 15, and a starship Fusion Gun in a fixed mount. That should take care of both bulkheads and battledresses.

Code: Select all

TL 15                                 Hull  4,7764  
                                      0,792        
                     Desired  Rat  #  dTonn  Cost  Power
Hull                                   1,8           0
Config CloseStructure     4    4            0,099  
HullStrength Standard     2    2        
Armour BondedSuperdense  15   15       0,2  0,119  
Rad Shielding             1    1            0,045  
Repair Drones             1    1       0,0  0,004  
              
ManœuvreD HiTec,3*EneEf   4    4   1   0,1  0,216    0
PowerP                             1   0,5  0,954   10
Fuel, Power               4   84   1   1,0    
              
Comp  m/10                2   10   1        0,160  
    /fib                  1    1            0,080  
Software Virtual Crew/0                     1,000
              
Sensors  Basic                     1      

Fixed Mount              
Fusion                    1 TL14   1        2,100    9
Now this is abusing the system...
Nerhesi
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby Nerhesi » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:17 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:Inspired by Chas' Slinky Boarding Mek:
The Boarding Drone
1.8 dT ≈ 25 m3, so a bit big. MCr 4.8
ManD 4, Armour 15, and a starship Fusion Gun in a fixed mount. That should take care of both bulkheads and battledresses.

Code: Select all

TL 15                                 Hull  4,7764  
                                      0,792        
                     Desired  Rat  #  dTonn  Cost  Power
Hull                                   1,8           0
Config CloseStructure     4    4            0,099  
HullStrength Standard     2    2        
Armour BondedSuperdense  15   15       0,2  0,119  
Rad Shielding             1    1            0,045  
Repair Drones             1    1       0,0  0,004  
              
ManœuvreD HiTec,3*EneEf   4    4   1   0,1  0,216    0
PowerP                             1   0,5  0,954   10
Fuel, Power               4   84   1   1,0    
              
Comp  m/10                2   10   1        0,160  
    /fib                  1    1            0,080  
Software Virtual Crew/0                     1,000
              
Sensors  Basic                     1      

Fixed Mount              
Fusion                    1 TL14   1        2,100    9
Now this is abusing the system...
0 hull value right? I'm assuming you can just make it 2.5 tons to give it 1 hull for example
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:35 pm

Nerhesi wrote:0 hull value right? I'm assuming you can just make it 2.5 tons to give it 1 hull for example
0 Hull or 1 Hull, doesn't matter, anything that does damage will kill it?

The idea is something that can fit into human-sized corridors aboard ship, 1.8 dT is already almost too big. (It can be made at 1.6 dT with an Energy Efficient fusion gun).
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby Nerhesi » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:34 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Nerhesi wrote:0 hull value right? I'm assuming you can just make it 2.5 tons to give it 1 hull for example
0 Hull or 1 Hull, doesn't matter, anything that does damage will kill it?

The idea is something that can fit into human-sized corridors aboard ship, 1.8 dT is already almost too big. (It can be made at 1.6 dT with an Energy Efficient fusion gun).
I blame you for making me too literal in some interpretations - 0 hull = destroyed?

Even then. Yeah it is an absolutely nasty item. It's not cheap.. so perhaps that is a balancing point?
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:51 pm

Nerhesi wrote:I blame you for making me too literal in some interpretations - 0 hull = destroyed?
I think I can beat you in being single-mindedly literal.
Core, p158 wrote:The remaining damage is the total that is removed from the spacecraft’s Hull. Once a spacecraft has been reduced to zero Hull, it is wrecked...
It has to be reduced to be destroyed, 0 Hull isn't enough. So, damage required.
Nerhesi wrote:Even then. Yeah it is an absolutely nasty item. It's not cheap.. so perhaps that is a balancing point?
It's a drone that replaces a marine, it still requires a lot of spacecraft to deliver it to the target ship. These spacecraft will be even more expensive, so the cost of the drone isn't critical.

But in planetary combat, we have something with the armour and main gun of a major grav tank, but almost for free...
AnotherDilbert
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby AnotherDilbert » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:58 pm

AnotherDilbert wrote:
Chas wrote:The fusion turrets are from the High Tech chapter?
Yes. 4D damage. Requires Long Range upgrade.
Oops, just realised we cannot upgrade the turret fusion gun with Long Range in the latest ß. Restricted to Adjacent range it isn't much use, except against large ships. Time to dust off the trusty Particle, while it lasts.
wbnc
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Re: Fighters.Fighters.Fighters.

Postby wbnc » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:09 am

Image

50 ton Patrol Fighter. Built at TL 12 to be easily manufactured by less advanced starports. Intended to be deployed to systems where it will loiter with several other fighters to patrol fuel sources, and remain near the jump limit of settled worlds to rapidly respond to hostile actions, and support other small craft during inspections, and security operations. It mount High Burn Thrusters to allow it to transit a system rather quickly and respond to calls for assistance with minimal delay.

It has a small stateroom built in to allow crewmen to remain on station for days or weeks/ The pilot, and copilot taking turns on watch.The copilot takes over turret weapons, and operates sensors during combat, allowing for him to use EW/PD fire to defeat missiles, and lock on while the pilot concentrates on flight and using the main gun.

The Pulse laser is designed top of the line for it's TL- and can pentrate armor, and deliver more consistent damage than basic Pulse lasers. Both weapons are capable of firing at close range allowing it to use it's heavy gun from a slightly improved range.

It can be upgraded with Radiation Shielding and Reflec for better protection, but standard ( beancounter friendly)models are designed to be mass produced at minimum cost per unit.

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