Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

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Infojunky
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Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby Infojunky » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:31 pm

Was reading mayday last evening looking for some ship ideas as well as figuring it out for use with Mongoose, and the idea occurred while reading the section on missiles that the idea of Proximity and Contact missile detonations could be adapted into the TMB's Starship combat with little or no disruption of the rules as written.

As they are currently written the gunner rolls to-hit to get the missile into proximity of target, then again to actually hit once it gets there.

So read it this way the turret gunner rolls to get it into Proximity, then has the choice to detonate at proximity range doing the listed damage. Or to continue in for and actual contact hit if it is successful does double damage.

Comments?
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby sideranautae » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:34 pm

Infojunky wrote:Was reading mayday last evening looking for some ship ideas as well as figuring it out for use with Mongoose, and the idea occurred while reading the section on missiles that the idea of Proximity and Contact missile detonations could be adapted into the TMB's Starship combat with little or no disruption of the rules as written.

As they are currently written the gunner rolls to-hit to get the missile into proximity of target, then again to actually hit once it gets there.

So read it this way the turret gunner rolls to get it into Proximity, then has the choice to detonate at proximity range doing the listed damage. Or to continue in for and actual contact hit if it is successful does double damage.

Comments?

What is "proximity range" in real measurement?
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Infojunky
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby Infojunky » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:52 pm

sideranautae wrote:
Infojunky wrote:Was reading mayday last evening looking for some ship ideas as well as figuring it out for use with Mongoose, and the idea occurred while reading the section on missiles that the idea of Proximity and Contact missile detonations could be adapted into the TMB's Starship combat with little or no disruption of the rules as written.

As they are currently written the gunner rolls to-hit to get the missile into proximity of target, then again to actually hit once it gets there.

So read it this way the turret gunner rolls to get it into Proximity, then has the choice to detonate at proximity range doing the listed damage. Or to continue in for and actual contact hit if it is successful does double damage.

Comments?

What is "proximity range" in real measurement?
What do the Mongoose rules say? Meaning close enough to make the second roll, as specific distance isn't specified.

In Mayday it is contact through the ship present position counter....
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby sideranautae » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:02 am

Infojunky wrote:
sideranautae wrote:
Infojunky wrote:Was reading mayday last evening looking for some ship ideas as well as figuring it out for use with Mongoose, and the idea occurred while reading the section on missiles that the idea of Proximity and Contact missile detonations could be adapted into the TMB's Starship combat with little or no disruption of the rules as written.

As they are currently written the gunner rolls to-hit to get the missile into proximity of target, then again to actually hit once it gets there.

So read it this way the turret gunner rolls to get it into Proximity, then has the choice to detonate at proximity range doing the listed damage. Or to continue in for and actual contact hit if it is successful does double damage.

Comments?

What is "proximity range" in real measurement?
What do the Mongoose rules say?
There is no such thing vis-a-vis missile attacks in MGT. Nothing about missile being in "proximity"... (not in the CRB or HG anyways)
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby Infojunky » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:23 am

sideranautae wrote:
There is no such thing vis-a-vis missile attacks in MGT. Nothing about missile being in "proximity"... (not in the CRB or HG anyways)
So, at what range can you engage a missile with point defense?
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby sideranautae » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:36 am

Infojunky wrote:
sideranautae wrote:
There is no such thing vis-a-vis missile attacks in MGT. Nothing about missile being in "proximity"... (not in the CRB or HG anyways)
So, at what range can you engage a missile with point defense?
There is no data in the rules on distance.
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby Infojunky » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:41 am

sideranautae wrote:
Infojunky wrote:
sideranautae wrote:
There is no such thing vis-a-vis missile attacks in MGT. Nothing about missile being in "proximity"... (not in the CRB or HG anyways)
So, at what range can you engage a missile with point defense?
There is no data in the rules on distance.
See, what does it matter what distance the proximity detonation is effective at then? Just assume it is in a similar range band... As both point defence fire and proximity detonation both occur after the missile does it run in.
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby sideranautae » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:48 am

Infojunky wrote:
So, at what range can you engage a missile with point defense?
sideranautae wrote:There is no data in the rules on distance.
Infojunky wrote:See, what does it matter what distance the proximity detonation is effective at then?
Because if the missile doesn't get VERY VERY close (unless a nuke) on the order of visual range it won't do any damage. A laser in space is going to hit something that size WAY beyond visual range.
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby Infojunky » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:04 am

sideranautae wrote:
Because if the missile doesn't get VERY VERY close (unless a nuke) on the order of visual range it won't do any damage. A laser in space is going to hit something that size WAY beyond visual range.
So what does this have to do with my fix? Meaning we can argue our separate technical assumptions all day and we still will be in the same place. All I am doing is making a reasonable slight modification of the rules as they are written to give a better result.

I mean we can start a thread just to discuss the fictional accuracy of laser versus agile and ballistic targets, but that isn't the scope of this topic.
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby Annatar Giftbringer » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:32 am

I think it sounds like an interresting idea!

Would this mean that if the first (launching) roll equals a hit, I could simply forget about that missile and when it gets close enough to hit it will deal its rule book damage, but if I want to make it a double damage contact hit the gunner responsible would need to forego his other shooting for that turn and instead roll for the existing missile again, and if that missile isn't shot down and the gunner succeeds with the second check, the missile deals double damage?

This would mean that a contact-nuke deals as much damage as a torpedo, which is not neccesarily a bad thing, though it leads to a follow-up question: Would this rule apply to torpedoes too?

I assume it wouldn't work at all for smart missiles - or possibly that they also get to test again, but at a flat 8+ with no bonuses for gunnery skill... ?
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby Infojunky » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:59 am

Annatar Giftbringer wrote:I think it sounds like an interresting idea!

Would this mean that if the first (launching) roll equals a hit, I could simply forget about that missile and when it gets close enough to hit it will deal its rule book damage, but if I want to make it a double damage contact hit the gunner responsible would need to forego his other shooting for that turn and instead roll for the existing missile again, and if that missile isn't shot down and the gunner succeeds with the second check, the missile deals double damage?
The procedure is exactly the same as the book the Gunner makes his role for placement of the missile, then once the missile has flown out to the target the missiles to-hit roll is made as per the chart at the top of page 149 in the TMB. (Note the missile is still subject to Point Defense, Electronic Warfare rolls and dodging for the final to hit roll).

The difference is when the time comes for the missile to make the To-hit roll there is the choice of either detonating in proximity or making the To-Hit roll for the contact detonation. Damage from the proximity detonation is the list damage, double for the contact detonation.
Annatar Giftbringer wrote:This would mean that a contact-nuke deals as much damage as a torpedo, which is not necessarily a bad thing, though it leads to a follow-up question: Would this rule apply to torpedoes too?
To be honest I hadn't given torpedos much thought, I suppose it could work for them as well. Though doing a quick look at the description of the various kinda of torpedoes a little more complexity might be in order, say that the standard self fragmenting device that the regular torpedo gets a Auto 4, 4d6 damage attack at the the To-Hit roll point in that it is a 4 part fragmenting warhead. The nuch I would probably just treat as per the rules above, the standoff detonation laser unchanged...
Annatar Giftbringer wrote:I assume it wouldn't work at all for smart missiles - or possibly that they also get to test again, but at a flat 8+ with no bonuses for gunnery skill... ?
At the start I would leave it with the 8+ To-Hit roll with the options to try again. (Note I am not beyond figuring out tech level improvements, a quick one would be to improve the smart missile chance to hit with tech level advance)

In the end the idea here is to add a little room for more missile options if the basic idea works within the mechanic, and if if that should be feasible maybe working more options. Also as I started from Mayday which is a very basic game based on CT's book 2 vector combat I thought I would start with just the options in TMB.
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Re: Of Mayday and Missiles, a quick fix...

Postby mr31337 » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:11 pm

Just to add that if you use the alternative (vector) movement rules from High Guard, then, "Missiles do not make a chained task roll for accuracy, but include the range DM from the time they are fired when making the final attack roll on the turn of impact."

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