Cew and dual or more roles

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MrBackman
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Cew and dual or more roles

Postby MrBackman » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:39 pm

Ship listings tend to list sensor operators and gunners as separate, Pilot and Astrogator are also generally listed separately.

All player controlled ships I have seen have had these skills as dual roles; The sensor operator handles the gunnery when the fighting starts, the pilot will do the astrogation etc.
What is your take on this? How should it be handled, what is allowable and what is not?
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby phavoc » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:59 pm

MrBackman wrote:Ship listings tend to list sensor operators and gunners as separate, Pilot and Astrogator are also generally listed separately.

All player controlled ships I have seen have had these skills as dual roles; The sensor operator handles the gunnery when the fighting starts, the pilot will do the astrogation etc.
What is your take on this? How should it be handled, what is allowable and what is not?
Navigation can be accomplished prior to liftoff, or at anytime prior to the jump, so this should easily be able to be done by the pilot if they have Nav skill. Depending on a number of variables, once the pilot has cleared the port and is out of traffic lanes it's more or less smooth sailing to the jump point they've selected (or their next destination in-system). Automated radar alerts will tell him if there is anything coming his way - assuming he's not trying to hide or be stealthy).

During combat I could see being worried about the gunnery is more important than scanning, unless you are looking for something specific. Traveller combat ranges are quite short, so scanning can wait till you are safe. Or you can turn it over to the computer, but you don't get your bonus gunnery skill to your rolls. So you'd need to take that into account.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby F33D » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:46 pm

MrBackman wrote:Ship listings tend to list sensor operators and gunners as separate, Pilot and Astrogator are also generally listed separately.

All player controlled ships I have seen have had these skills as dual roles; The sensor operator handles the gunnery when the fighting starts, the pilot will do the astrogation etc.
What is your take on this? How should it be handled, what is allowable and what is not?
In my game the Gunner skill (Weapon System Operator or WSO) gives you Sensors = to skill level.
Pilots & Astrogators skill gives it at a level of -1 e.g. (Pilot 2 = Sensors 1)

All bridge positions learn how to use Comm gear. If you want to mess around with "Comm" you use Electronics skill. In some cases Computer.

As far as what you see on the Bridge of a typical Tramp; You see a Pilot/Master and an Astrogation program. The Engineer is in the "back" usually.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby Somebody » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:53 pm

Pilot and Astrogator is a common mix and would be no problem in routine operations. Now computing an emergency jump while dodging imperial fighters might get a bit tricky.

Sensors and guns I can not see. Sensors and Comms are more of a pair.

Gunners are often drawn from Stewards and small craft crew
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby F33D » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:56 pm

Somebody wrote: Sensors and guns I can not see.
That's what you have now on aircraft and ships. Why not in the future too?
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby phavoc » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:03 am

F33D wrote:
Somebody wrote: Sensors and guns I can not see.
That's what you have now on aircraft and ships. Why not in the future too?
Old-school naval equivalents wouldn't do it (i.e. real guns and turrets - the radar operator didn't go that route).

Today's ships are pretty much all electronic, so yeah, I could see a guy watching sensors and then doing a few commands to launch a missile at a target. I think this might be more likely on the newer LCS-class ships because they have such a tiny crew. They simply don't have the manpower to NOT be multi-rated on ****. Though they won't be excellent on everything, but they probably can do the operations. I was cross-trained as a driver and gunner in the Army. In Trav that could make me Pilot-1, Gunner-1, Sensor-1 and Nav-1. I could use the radio and read the maps too bitches! :) :)
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby Condottiere » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:10 am

This would usually happen on one on one encounters. A scout should be a jack of all trades.

You could lock the turret into a single direction or forward, simplifying fire control by keeping the ship pointed at your opponent, or doing a strafing run at an angle.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby F33D » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:24 pm

phavoc wrote: Today's ships are pretty much all electronic, so yeah, I could see a guy watching sensors and then doing a few commands to launch a missile at a target. I think this might be more likely on the newer LCS-class ships because they have such a tiny crew. They simply don't have the manpower to NOT be multi-rated on ****. Though they won't be excellent on everything, but they probably can do the operations. I was cross-trained as a driver and gunner in the Army. In Trav that could make me Pilot-1, Gunner-1, Sensor-1 and Nav-1. I could use the radio and read the maps too bitches! :) :)
Same thing as a wizzo in a fighter aircraft. Two hats. Sensors & weapons. It's a natural match that doesn't degrade crew performance. Firing the weapon is simply pressing a button. They are slaved to the sensors. It would be the same in Trav. It is mainly a sensor op job.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby locarno24 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:07 pm

Three hats. A backseater often covers weapons, sensors and navigation.

With gunnery mostly being a game of mathematics at starship combat ranges (rather than "millenum falcon" turret gunnery), I'd agree the comment about sensor operator. The skill of a 'gunner' is more akin to the Honor Harrington tactical officer; figuring out how to spread the barrage of fire based on the manouvres the enemy might make during time-of-flight, deciding whether to fire shots to arrive time-on-target and saturate defences or one salvo snuck in behind another to catch point defence/sandcasters during a reload cycle, spotting weaknesses in any ECM, etc, etc. Rarely will you ever be sat behind an actual 'gunsight'.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby phavoc » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:43 pm

locarno24 wrote:With gunnery mostly being a game of mathematics at starship combat ranges (rather than "millenum falcon" turret gunnery), I'd agree the comment about sensor operator. The skill of a 'gunner' is more akin to the Honor Harrington tactical officer; figuring out how to spread the barrage of fire based on the manouvres the enemy might make during time-of-flight, deciding whether to fire shots to arrive time-on-target and saturate defences or one salvo snuck in behind another to catch point defence/sandcasters during a reload cycle, spotting weaknesses in any ECM, etc, etc. Rarely will you ever be sat behind an actual 'gunsight'.
So you think Nimitz wouldn't make a good weapons operator?
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby F33D » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:20 pm

locarno24 wrote:Three hats. A backseater often covers weapons, sensors and navigation.
Yep. That's how it used to be. Now the onboard computer handles Nav.
locarno24 wrote:With gunnery mostly being a game of mathematics at starship combat ranges (rather than "millenum falcon" turret gunnery), I'd agree the comment about sensor operator. The skill of a 'gunner' is more akin to the Honor Harrington tactical officer; figuring out how to spread the barrage of fire based on the manouvres the enemy might make during time-of-flight, deciding whether to fire shots to arrive time-on-target and saturate defences or one salvo snuck in behind another to catch point defence/sandcasters during a reload cycle, spotting weaknesses in any ECM, etc, etc. Rarely will you ever be sat behind an actual 'gunsight'.
That's how I see it. Tactics. Even telling the pilot where to go in order to optimize offense or defense. More of a Tactical Officer. At least for the Section lead.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby Condottiere » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:41 pm

Nimitz has four arms; I can see him holding down two hats.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby phavoc » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:07 pm

Condottiere wrote:Nimitz has four arms; I can see him holding down two hats.
After Hades he's only got three (I think one of the tru-hands got whacked, I don't recall).
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locarno24
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby locarno24 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:18 am

He lost the use of it temporarily, but it wasn't amputated and that gets 'repaired' during Ashes of Victory (he's using his true-hands for signing later on in that book).

Although in our Pirates Of Drinax campaign, we have got an Aslan ex-navy officer who's referred to by the rest of the players as 'Nimitz'. Which bugs him massively as he's never read any Honorverse novels and no-one will explain to him why....
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby Condottiere » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:23 am

He's lucky he's not referred to as Hobbes.
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Re: Cew and dual or more roles

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:34 am

MrBackman wrote:What is your take on this? How should it be handled, what is allowable and what is not?
Depends on how the ship controls are designed. Miniaturization of components helps. So does computer controlling.

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