Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

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corruptone
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Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby corruptone » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:36 am

Hello everyone. First post and new recruit to the Legend army!!

I am making my first character and had a question regarding spending of the 250 free skill points and Magic skills. Can you only BUY the skills at starting value? OR can you Buy and add points to them. What if you already have them from your profession, can you increase them using free skill points?

My confusion comes from page 23 and the bullet points where it only specifically mentions Magic skills under the BUY bullet point (4th one I believe).

Thank you all in advance for answering my question...and who knows, I may have many more lol!
DamonJynx
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby DamonJynx » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:23 am

Once you have determined your cultural and professional skills and added the relevant bonus' you can distribute your free skill points as you see fit with the following caveats:
  • 1. A maximum of 30 skill points can be given to any skill (common and advanced but see below)
    2. Advanced skills, other than those chosen as cultural and professional skills, are 'bought' at their base percentage for a cost of 10 free skill points leaving 20 skill points available to increase that skill
We'll use an advanced Culture/Profession skill that has STR+DEX as its base:

STR 14, DEX 12 Base = 26
Culture +10, profession +10 = 46
+ Max 30 free skill points = 76
Reduce free skill points buy 30

If you take an advanced skill that's not a culture/profession skill (i.e. that you have to purchase) then it works out like this:

STR 14, DEX 12 Base = 26
+ 20 Free skill points (30-10 points to buy at the base value) = 46
Reduce free skill points buy 30

Hope that helps.
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corruptone
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby corruptone » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:52 am

I understand what you're saying BUT, Magic skills aren't listed as Advanced skills and on Page 23 where it has the bullet points on what you can spend Free Points on it says:

Free Skill Points
Every Legend Adventurer receives an additional 250 Skill Points to spend on their Adventurer.
The player can add these Free Skill Points to his skills in the following ways:
• Add to a Common skill or Combat Style skill score.
• Add to an Advanced skill score, as long as the Adventurer already possesses the skill.
• Buy an Advanced skill. This costs 10 Free Skill Points and the Advanced skill starts at its
basic Characteristic-derived score.
Buy skills enabling Magic to be cast. If Common Magic is supported in the Legend setting
, then the Adventurer will already have this as a Common skill; otherwise it will need to
be bought as an Advanced Skill. The other magic enabling skills are Pact (Deity) and Lore
(Specific Theology) – for Divine cult members or Manipulation and Sorcery (Grimoire)
for Sorcerers.


Notice that it says you can BUY Magic skills on bullet point 4 but does that include ADDING to it with other points. It isn't very clear from reading this section of the rules.
DamonJynx
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby DamonJynx » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:17 am

corruptone wrote: Buy an Advanced skill. This costs 10 Free Skill Points and the Advanced skill starts at its
basic Characteristic-derived score
.
Buy skills enabling Magic to be cast. If Common Magic is supported in the Legend setting
, then the Adventurer will already have this as a Common skill
; otherwise it will need to
be bought as an Advanced Skill. The other magic enabling skills are Pact (Deity) and Lore
(Specific Theology) – for Divine cult members or Manipulation and Sorcery (Grimoire)
for Sorcerers.


Notice that it says you can BUY Magic skills on bullet point 4 but does that include ADDING to it with other points. It isn't very clear from reading this section of the rules.
If you are playing a Divine Magic user or a Sorcerer you would normally get those magic skills as part of your advanced skill package. They are treated as advanced skills and can be increased with free skill points as with any other skill. If you aren't starting with a profession that gives those skills and you want to use them, I strongly suggest you re-think your profession choice.

The section on Common Magic means that if your GM allows you to have access to Common Magic, but it isn't available culturally or professionally you have to buy it as an advanced skill and it is treated EXACTLY the same as any other advanced skill.

If you are obtaining magical skills after character creation, your GM will advise how they can be obtained and at what cost. Usually, but not always, by spending a number of improvement rolls and/or joining a cult or similar.
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Bifford
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby Bifford » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:27 am

Hey guys, I am the GM for the poster and the confusion has arisen because of a bit of text hidden away on page 172 where it specifies that PACT is only available at base points, that is Cha + Dedicated POW, and that you can not add free points to this but only add to it via improvement.

Now it does then go onto saying about improving this through quests etc which means you can improve PACT/Lore quicker in the game than normal skills as you could get many PACT/LORE improvement rolls to the one game improvement roll.

However, there is also the restrictions on the amount of PACT you can have per level, so an Initiate can only have a max of 1/4 POW (which generally they choose at char gen) eg 13 POW becomes max 4 Dedicated, add the 13 Charisma and you have Pact 17.

So even through questing the PACT can not be improved (if they have maxed out their dedicated amount) until they go up to acolyte level (though LORE can!).
DamonJynx
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby DamonJynx » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:14 am

Bifford wrote:Hey guys, I am the GM for the poster and the confusion has arisen because of a bit of text hidden away on page 172 where it specifies that PACT is only available at base points, that is Cha + Dedicated POW, and that you can not add free points to this but only add to it via improvement.
You are reading this too literally. Pact is a skill like any other and can be increased by the use of free skill points.
Bifford wrote:Now it does then go onto saying about improving this through quests etc which means you can improve PACT/Lore quicker in the game than normal skills as you could get many PACT/LORE improvement rolls to the one game improvement roll.
If you take on quests and such, yes , your devotion to your God increases represented by the Pact.
Bifford wrote:However, there is also the restrictions on the amount of PACT you can have per level, so an Initiate can only have a max of 1/4 POW (which generally they choose at char gen) eg 13 POW becomes max 4 Dedicated, add the 13 Charisma and you have Pact 17.

So even through questing the PACT can not be improved (if they have maxed out their dedicated amount) until they go up to acolyte level (though LORE can!).
This is incorrect. Only the amount of dedicated POW is restricted. The Pact can be increased as with any other skill via improvement rolls and those given through quests and so on. The major uses of the Pact skill are:
  • 1. Determine the number of Divine Spells a character can cast, = to Dedicated POW
    2. A role playing aid for PC's so that they can exhibit the behaviours and attitudes of the deity as the Pact Skill increases.
That's it, no more, or less complicated than that.
Glory is the reward of valour.

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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby Bifford » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:06 pm

Hmm, okay so there's one person's view (and until recently that was my view too! the first game I ran of this people had free points spent on pact)

What do other people say? Do they agree with DamonJynx (and my original viewpoint) or the restricted view??
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby strega » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:33 pm

According to both MRQII and Legend the wording is identical for this part of the rules. So no extra clarity there.

I quote:
"The starting value of the Pact skill is equal to CHA + Dedicated POW. Like any other skill it can be developed through the spending of Improvement rolls, improving the CHA characteristic, or dedicating further POW. Pact can also be increased in other ways, as the Pact Improvement table, following, demonstrates. The higher the Pact skill, the more dedicated the follower."

Table of things that improve Pact skill

"These improvements are in addition to any Improvement rolls an Adventurer wants to use for developing the relationship with his god."

However in the Free Skill Points section p23 it says:
"The player can add these Free Skill Points to his skills in the following ways:
• Add to a Common skill or Combat Style skill score.
Add to an Advanced skill score, as long as the Adventurer already possesses the skill.
• Buy an Advanced skill. This costs 10 Free Skill Points and the Advanced skill starts at its
basic Characteristic-derived score.
Buy skills enabling Magic to be cast. If Common Magic is supported in the Legend setting, then the Adventurer will already have this as a Common skill; otherwise it will need to be bought as an Advanced Skill. The other magic enabling skills are Pact (Deity) and Lore (Specific Theology) – for Divine cult members or Manipulation and Sorcery (Grimoire) for Sorcerers."

So while the section on Pacts does not seem to allow increases except as detailed teh Free Skill Points section does specifically allow these points to be spent on the Pact skill.
My Getting started with Legend file including a suggested starting adventure.

My Romano-British Game setting.
DamonJynx
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby DamonJynx » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:56 pm

@Bifford,

Hi Mate, at the end of the day you are the GM. It's up to you how this stuff works in your world(s). You can choose to limit the use of Free skill points however you choose.

As an aside: my personal opinion is that using the sum of 2 ability scores for the base % of skills leads to players, having too high a value in some skills (notably combat, which my group tends to max out). I would prefer to use the average, but ... obviously, this only relates to starting, novice adventurers, seasoned characters should be competent and have a higher base %.

That's the beauty of this system, you don't have to be beholden to the RAW. You are free to modify things as you see fit.
Glory is the reward of valour.

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medievaladventures
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby medievaladventures » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:24 am

I would allow the player to use the starting Free Skill points towards any skill (including Divine Magic), but what works for your group is the "right" answer. :-) Remember Legend Page 3 states:
Forge your own Legend
These rules offer a detailed roleplaying framework and most players and Games Masters will
use them as presented. However, nothing is cast in stone. If a rule does not suit you, change
it or ignore it. Your game is paramount.
Redcrow
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby Redcrow » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:14 am

I agree with DamonJynx and that is how I've always handled it in my game.
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby HalfOrc HalfBiscuit » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:38 am

Redcrow wrote:I agree with DamonJynx and that is how I've always handled it in my game.
+1
Bifford
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Re: Free Skill Points, Magic, and You!!

Postby Bifford » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:01 pm

I've decided to go with my original way of working, which is that points can be put into PACT.

I hope Corruptone doesn't mind me taking over the post! LOL.

Sam / Bifford

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