Traveller 5th Edition

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
F33D
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby F33D » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:14 am

far-trader wrote: ;)

You mean something like what's been on the kickstarter page for a few days now? Just scroll down a bit, right below the shirts, it's a swag choice and option instead of the CD iirc...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tra ... th-edition
Bingo. But, I don't mean for the kickstarter phase. Good to see great minds think alike though. ;)
captainjack23
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby captainjack23 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:29 am

Going into fanboi shill mode !

t5 kickstarter now at well over $250,000 raised -last stretch is 2000 backers & its at 1912. Last chance! 14 hours to go ! Give in to your inner fanboi ! JOIN US ! (and I mean this with all sincerity !)
Even a 1$ bid adds in to the final backers total. (hint hint)

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tra ... th-edition

Thanks for the soapbox Mongoose. Go MGT, too.
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rust
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby rust » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:22 am

Sorry, no, they already have more than ten times the money
they considered necessary to finance the project, and the
question has already moved from "How do we finance T5 ?"
to "What will we do now with all that money ?".
lordmalachdrim
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby lordmalachdrim » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:54 am

captainjack23 wrote:t5 kickstarter now at well over $250,000 raised -last stretch is 2000 backers & its at 1912. Last chance! 14 hours to go ! Give in to your inner fanboi ! JOIN US ! (and I mean this with all sincerity !)
Even a 1$ bid adds in to the final backers total. (hint hint)
He changed the last stretch goal from 2000 backers to $250,000, so a Knighthood for every book is a go.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby captainjack23 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:24 pm

rust wrote:Sorry, no, they already have more than ten times the money
they considered necessary to finance the project, and the
question has already moved from "How do we finance T5 ?"
to "What will we do now with all that money ?".
Honestly, Rust, I could not care less. Seriously, I get a product I already like the beta version of, in a format that is, by todays expenses, worth the basic retail price: 75$. If the extra money goes to Marc and FFE for their 501K, no problem for me. plus, consider how much of the final price of any gaming product does not go tho the actual author - I can easily see it as helping him getting a better than 20% return for each dollar you spend on his product when it goes thru normal production. Basic wholesale is 30 -40% of cover -and ask Matt how much of that gets lost due to every other damned thing before the owner gets paid.

See, I like RPGs, I appreciate the work and passion that goes into them, and the ways they enrich my free time and friendships. Assuming even 75% of the money is over and above the upgraded version that the stretches represent, amortize it over 40 years of RPG design for Marc, and it is a small annuity indeed.

Frankly, too, of the main designers of my favorite hobby, a distressing number of them can hardly be said to have profited by their efforts; and if one of them gets a bit of a bump at the end of his career, well, okay by me. Perhaps that will encourage the next generation when faced with the choice of making a decent living from not doing RPG design work or following their muse, and thus making my life more entertaining. In fact, it represents about a $ 2.50 per person per year 35 year subscription for the 2000 backers alone. Not a bad deal for 35 years of traveller fun; especially given the number of crappy movies and books I've plopped down more than 2.50 (or even 25.00) for in any given year, each of those years.

Honestly, for what we give to creators vs what get, we have a great deal going; and I'm speaking of the whole industry here.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby rust » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:00 pm

captainjack23 wrote:
Honestly, for what we give to creators vs what get, we have a great deal going; and I'm speaking of the whole industry here.
Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of the creators
who made Traveller what is it by contributing to its vari-
ous versions will see zero of that Kickstarter money, the
Kickstarter thing is far more about hero worship than gi-
ving something back to those who actually kept the ga-
me alive after CT.

Anyhow, the horse is dead now.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby captainjack23 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:51 pm

rust wrote:
captainjack23 wrote:
Honestly, for what we give to creators vs what get, we have a great deal going; and I'm speaking of the whole industry here.
Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of the creators
who made Traveller what is it by contributing to its vari-
ous versions will see zero of that Kickstarter money, the
Kickstarter thing is far more about hero worship than gi-
ving something back to those who actually kept the ga-
me alive after CT.
A fair opinion, and one which we can obviously disagree on. I wouldn't characterise anyones behavior as hero worship if I didn't know them, but maybe its a blind spot on my part; or maybe it seems more perjorative to me than you intend. Regardless, leaving all unfairness unfixed doesn't invalidate a good deed, or a gift. I'd happily donate to a fund to do what you suggest is fair -most of the time, the best i can do is support existing lines that I enjoy to the best of my ability (and tolerance); this time I could do a bit more. Which is cool.
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zozotroll
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby zozotroll » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:16 am

I would pwehaps have done this but for 2 reasons.
1. MGT already does most of what I want raveller to do, and I bet MM makes a good bit of off the License. So $100 sight unseen by me is not a good bet.

2. I just dumped $100 into Steve Jackson for Ogre 6 kickstart. For many of the reasons CJ23 listed. Had they happened in different years, or in different order, the MM may well have got my cash. As it is, EvilStevie bet him to it.

As for the $100 is to much, few gamers would complain about four 150 pages books for $25. Alhou I to am concerned about how well it will hold togather. And yes I can get 24 four times a lot easier than i can 100 one time/.

I hope it is good, but even more I hope MGT doesnt go away in a few years.

Owen
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby rust » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:18 am

captainjack23 wrote: I wouldn't characterise anyones behavior as hero worship if I didn't know them, but maybe its a blind spot on my part; or maybe it seems more perjorative to me than you intend.
It was not intended as in any way insulting. What I did mean
is that the success of the Kickstarter project was based upon
the celebrity status of one person.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby rust » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:21 am

zozotroll wrote: As for the $100 is to much, few gamers would complain about four 150 pages books for $25.
I would not complain about the $100, although they are
at the high end, but the $40 for postage beyond North
America is extreme.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby far-trader » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:14 am

rust wrote:...the $40 for postage beyond North America is extreme.
Blame the postal services for that one. I wasn't surprised at the rates, based on past experience in international shipping. They sound about right and I think I've seen similar for the other way around too. Check your local postal service for insured international shipping, or couriers.

If you want to talk really stupid rates the last time I was actively involved in international shipping a few years ago it was often cheaper for me to ship to the USA from Canada than it was to ship across Canada... but overseas shipping was the real shocker. Naturally some customers blame the seller even when told up front how much it would cost and that it's not my call but the shipping service. I never padded my shipping costs.

I did have a few wonderful customers though who did understand and didn't fuss. One memorable sale to an Australian I still recall fondly had the shipping costing double the items, which weren't cheap. I tried six different ways to find a cheaper option but the best I could do was about 20% cheaper and taking several weeks. I figured I'd lost the sale and gave him the option to cancel. He said no, and that the higher cost was fine to get it there in a week instead of waiting.

My latest shocker though really takes the cake. I ordered a DVD, with free standard postal delivery (about 1 week across country). Out of curiosity I checked out the express option (a couple days not counting holidays and weekends). It was going to cost over $100 dollars! For ONE friggin DVD. Give me a break.
Last edited by far-trader on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:15 am

rust wrote:What I did mean is that the success of the Kickstarter project was based upon the celebrity status of one person.
KickStarter is for fanboys and eBay resellers, period.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby mattman » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:33 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
rust wrote:What I did mean is that the success of the Kickstarter project was based upon the celebrity status of one person.
KickStarter is for fanboys and eBay resellers, period.


Eh. You guys are a bunch of grumbly, curmudgeonly grognards :) Yes, you're quite right and very collegial about it but I bought it anyway. And by the way, I love your vids.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby allanimal » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:06 am

rust wrote: I would not complain about the $100, although they are
at the high end, but the $40 for postage beyond North
America is extreme.
Yeah, that's what bothered me too.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby Captain Jonah » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:25 am

A 600 page hardback plus the extras is going to top a kilo. All those posters and dice and such like plus the card box and you are looking at 1.5 kilos. From the UK to the US airmail for a 5 day delivery that is £30, so roughly $45.

The actual amount is about right.

Of course why people donating hundreds or thousands of dollars are being charged the extra postage is another question :roll:
Traveller: Nonsense, those rumours about me and crashes, no truth in them at all. I never had a landing I didn't walk away from!

ACTA-SF: Who are we, GORN. What do we want, Cruisers that can turn.... Wait, OK Escorts... Wait. I'll get back to you !
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby lordmalachdrim » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:05 am

If you base the cost of the different levels on shipping inside the same country as you are located then charging extra is to be expected. And since a medium size flat rate box for the US Post Office for international shipping is $47.95 (http://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.asp ... &o=1&mt=12) It makes sense. Also don't forget that kickstarter keeps 5% of the pledge for itself and Amazon keeps 3-5%. http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/cre ... esKickChar

So that $100 pledge for the book nets about $90 for the dvd, dice, poster, 600pg book (with announced retail price of $75), and shipping in the US. http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/cre ... esKickChar
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby rust » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:14 pm

far-trader wrote: Blame the postal services for that one. I wasn't surprised at the rates, based on past experience in international shipping. They sound about right and I think I've seen similar for the other way around too. Check your local postal service for insured international shipping, or couriers.
Actually, our postal service demands 15,90 Euro for a parcel
of up to 2 kg / worldwide and only 8,90 Euro within the EU.
So, instead of sending the parcels individually from the USA,
the smart thing would be to send all parcels for customers
in the EU as a single package to a distributor within the EU,
who could then distribute them to the individual customers
at the low EU rates. This is how it is normally done.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby 2330ADUSA1 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:55 pm

<snip from the email from [Coti]>
Third, we have only just begun. The Core Traveller5 Hardcover is filled with rules and concepts and information about the universes of the far future. Open the book and you can start playing Traveller adventures immediately, just as you always have: create characters, build ships, generate worlds.



We’re working on support material: the Players’ Book, the Game Screen, Deck Plans. It’s coming in early-to-mid 2013. We’ll make announcements along the way.


*** Ok T5 will be out in Dec 2012, and it would appear that there are plans to have other books out in 2013 as well too. So what now? Will we have different versions of the Traveller game battling against one another for everyones dollar? I am a real long time fan and have always bought it all, and will continue to do so but others are not like me.

I like what Mongoose Publishing has done and think out of all the many different versions and publishors of the game, they are by far the best. I feel the way for them to keep the lead is to crank out more Traveller products and flood the market with their products. I turn and look at the book shelves behind my desk in my own library and look at the 58 Traveller products I own for this version inspired by Mongoose Pub with (7) of them from others but made for this version and I am quite happy with what I have now. Oh I will buy others products as long as they can fit in with this version and that also means I will buy T5 stuff too, but I am extremely impressed with what Mongoose has done so far and hope they will continue to keep running with it all. They have a great following and I feel they have done a fantastic job, and hop ethey step it up and do more to swarm the market with more stuff to keep their awesome lead!!!
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far-trader
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby far-trader » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:11 pm

rust wrote:
far-trader wrote: Blame the postal services for that one. I wasn't surprised at the rates, based on past experience in international shipping. They sound about right and I think I've seen similar for the other way around too. Check your local postal service for insured international shipping, or couriers.
Actually, our postal service demands 15,90 Euro for a parcel
of up to 2 kg / worldwide and only 8,90 Euro within the EU.
So, instead of sending the parcels individually from the USA,
the smart thing would be to send all parcels for customers
in the EU as a single package to a distributor within the EU,
who could then distribute them to the individual customers
at the low EU rates. This is how it is normally done.
And labour and materials for packing it up is free I guess.

Do you imagine all that added logistics for distribution isn't going to increase the cost of shipping and handling? And add to the time of delivery? Maybe it's done that way "normally" by larger dealers with dedicated distributors with some small cost savings but that's not what we're talking about here. Not even close.

And then people would be complaining about that too.

Your idea is unrealistic for this case. The complaints about the shipping charge are without merit on every level. They are what they are and everyone knew them up front. If anyone thought they were inappropriate the answer was simple, don't pledge.

And that includes the limited reward levels. Sure one might think Marc could just eat the shipping cost on the higher pledges but the people pledging those amounts knew they were being charged the amount and still bought it.

I could easily flip that complaint too. If you're already in for hundreds to support this kickstarter what's another measly $25 or $40? Spare change.

And by the way Captain Jonah, you're wrong about the higher limited reward pledges ($950 and up) not inlcluding s&h, they do, worldwide.

It's a shame if the added cost meant someone who wanted to pledge couldn't quite swing it for the extra few dollars but somehow I get the feeling these aren't the people complaining about that. I get the distinct impression the ones complaining had no intention to participate anyway.
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Re: Traveller 5th Edition

Postby far-trader » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:19 pm

2330ADUSA1 wrote:...So what now? Will we have different versions of the Traveller game battling against one another for everyones dollar?
I doubt it. People will buy into the one they like, which ever one that is. I suspect there are some who have been waiting for this and haven't been happy with or bought into MgT. So no loss there for Mongoose. Likewise there are those who don't give a fig for T5 and never intended to buy into it and will stick with MgT (...or GT, or MT, or TNE, or CT, etc.). So again, no loss for Mongoose.
2330ADUSA1 wrote:I am a real long time fan and have always bought it all, and will continue to do so but others are not like me.
And then there is that, which probably describes the majority. You are not so alone as you may think you are. Which is of course again no loss for MgT.

Net: More Traveller material without anyone loosing sales.
Last edited by far-trader on Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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