samurai of legend

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tneva82
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samurai of legend

Postby tneva82 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:55 pm

I recall that being mentioned as one future supplement for legend. Any ideas when it might be roughly coming up? Hopefully this year :D

Just hoping I don't have to wait for years for the one setting I pretty much got the legend book in a first place...
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby DamonJynx » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:45 pm

If you have the MRQ1 version you could probably just convert the NPC stats and magic over. I intend doing that with some Hawkmoon stuff.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby tneva82 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:31 am

DamonJynx wrote:If you have the MRQ1 version you could probably just convert the NPC stats and magic over. I intend doing that with some Hawkmoon stuff.
No I don't.

And what? Magic? Uhhuh. Suddenly interest dropped dramatically :(
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby ThatGuy » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:14 am

I believe the magic system is more to handle "chi" abilities, if I recall correctly.

You can always rule to sideline magic- but some folks like an oriental magic environment- complete with Jade Dragons, and other Asian, mythic creatures.

If you are looking for a more Bushido-Ronin-Ninja game, the MRQ1 (and even RQ3) have pretty good frame works for that too, as well as some adventures (I believe).

I, too, am interested in what a Legend "Land of the Ninja" book would look like though.
Let's say, just for argument's sake, you're right...
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby tneva82 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:20 am

ThatGuy wrote:I believe the magic system is more to handle "chi" abilities, if I recall correctly.
Either way last time I checked we don't have any mystical powers in our world. Ergo if I play samurai themed game I don't want ANY form of supernatural power. Because there ain't one! Massive breach of "suspension of disbelief" for me.

I'm not interested in adding Merlin type of characters to my knight adventures etc. If I want such powers I grab fantasy setting. But for our world it's no supernatural powers(at least real ones. Priests faking it is okay provided it's just that. Faking it).

Now if the rules are easy enough to simply ignore then fair enough but if they are expected to be used then "bleh". If I have to house rule stuff heavily to accommodate ignoring those parts completely then not nice.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby DamonJynx » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:46 am

tneva82 wrote:And what? Magic? Uhhuh. Suddenly interest dropped dramatically :(
Sorry for my misleading post. I don't own, nor have I read, the MRQ1 version of Land of The Samurai, or whatever it's called. I mistakenly assumed that as it's a supplement for an RPG and most RPG's have some form of magic...

Anyhow, if it's Chi type stuff it will probably equate to the current legend Magic Points for powering Heroic Abilities - which is quite in keeping with the cinematic feel of ninja's and such like. But as with all things concerning rules, it's your game, if you don't want to use something, that's entirely up to you. I'm sure the ideas presented in the book, excluding whatever form of magic, if any, will be more than worth the price for someone wanting to run that style of game.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby tneva82 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:40 am

DamonJynx wrote:If you have the MRQ1 version you could probably just convert the NPC stats and magic over. I intend doing that with some Hawkmoon stuff.
Is that book called land of samurai by design mechanism available at drivethru? In any case for 1$ wont be expesive trry.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby soltakss » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:04 pm

tneva82 wrote:Either way last time I checked we don't have any mystical powers in our world. Ergo if I play samurai themed game I don't want ANY form of supernatural power. Because there ain't one! Massive breach of "suspension of disbelief" for me.
If you base a campaign on tales and legends then there are definitely supernatural characters around. The Mongols were defeated by the Divine Wind, for example. However, if you want a campaign without magic then that works as well.
tneva82 wrote:Now if the rules are easy enough to simply ignore then fair enough but if they are expected to be used then "bleh". If I have to house rule stuff heavily to accommodate ignoring those parts completely then not nice.
Whatever magic was in the original Samurai supplement can just as easily be ignored as included. It is definitely not central to the supplement.

If you want monks in monastaries without magic then it won't cause a problem.
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tneva82
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby tneva82 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:13 pm

soltakss wrote:
tneva82 wrote:Either way last time I checked we don't have any mystical powers in our world. Ergo if I play samurai themed game I don't want ANY form of supernatural power. Because there ain't one! Massive breach of "suspension of disbelief" for me.
If you base a campaign on tales and legends then there are definitely supernatural characters around. The Mongols were defeated by the Divine Wind, for example. However, if you want a campaign without magic then that works as well.
Well I don't base on tales and legends and while Mongols might have been defeated by Divine Wind there's nothing supernatural on a storm ;) Just a bloody good luck on part of Japanese! (or not so bloody good luck if the Mongols happened to make mistake of trying to invade during taifuun period)
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby Loz » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:23 pm

'Land of the Samurai' is set in the Heian period of Japanese history, rather than the Shogunate period of most traditional samurai settings. The imperial court's power is at its height, power being contested by three different dynasties, civil war brewing, and the power of the monasteries resulting in inter-faith wars.

One of the interesting things I came across while researching the book was an imperial edict from the era that specifically outlawed sorcery. Whether magic exists or not in your campaign, its interesting to note that magic was feared enough in real Heian period Japan to warrant such an edict. Could make for an interesting backdrop.

There's also evidence from the period to show that mysticism was being actively pursued amongst the different Buddhist schools with very different views on how it should be perceived and used. This led to many direct conflicts between buddhist sects that resulted in local street battles and power struggles.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby ThatGuy » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:31 pm

Stop all that sorcery! :D

Loz has a great point. Magic does not have to be real for people to THINK its real.
Let's say, just for argument's sake, you're right...
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby tneva82 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:07 pm

ThatGuy wrote:Stop all that sorcery! :D

Loz has a great point. Magic does not have to be real for people to THINK its real.
Oh I did say I don't have problems with guys faking it. After all that's how tales about Jesus, God, Allah and whatnot have come about. Guys making people think they are real and then tales springing up.

There just ain't going to be characters actually able to do anything even remotely magical.

Also since the supplement I bought details Heian period(nice idea actually) no ninja's whatsoever. Apart from the fact it's not even sure there WERE any ninja's in a first place(so even in later period I wouldn't have them as exactly common feature. If they WERE constantly assasinating people etc they would not be so much in doubt was there even them) they most definitely were NOT in Heian period.

So far liking the look of this supplement. Seems to provide plenty of adventure hooks even without magic :) And certainly fresh view. Haven't investigated that area that much before either. And for the dollar hardly can be too expensive :lol:
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby Mixster » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:00 am

tneva82 wrote:
ThatGuy wrote:Stop all that sorcery! :D

Loz has a great point. Magic does not have to be real for people to THINK its real.
Oh I did say I don't have problems with guys faking it. After all that's how tales about Jesus, God, Allah and whatnot have come about. Guys making people think they are real and then tales springing up.

There just ain't going to be characters actually able to do anything even remotely magical.
FYI, Legend was based on Glorantha, and the system will suffer some chinks and flaws without magic as an inherent part. Some stats are a lot less meaningful than with magic.

Just something to look out for if you do decide to go no-magic.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby PhilHibbs » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:08 am

I've been playing a lot of "Legend of the Five Rings" recently which is a samurai-themed game with lots of magic, and I think it works really well.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby tneva82 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:41 pm

Mixster wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
ThatGuy wrote:Stop all that sorcery! :D

Loz has a great point. Magic does not have to be real for people to THINK its real.
Oh I did say I don't have problems with guys faking it. After all that's how tales about Jesus, God, Allah and whatnot have come about. Guys making people think they are real and then tales springing up.

There just ain't going to be characters actually able to do anything even remotely magical.
FYI, Legend was based on Glorantha, and the system will suffer some chinks and flaws without magic as an inherent part. Some stats are a lot less meaningful than with magic.

Just something to look out for if you do decide to go no-magic.
I know that but as I said if I want to play game set in our world then I want game that FEELS like part of our world.

Our world has no magic. Has no gods(real ones anyway). Has no vampires. No werewolves. No snow girl(reference to japanese folk tale). No fairies etc. Plenty of folk tales about those but they are just that. Folk tales ;)

Therefore as far as my games goes if they are set in our world then none of those except as legends within game.

If it causes issues with the game rules then either I ignore them as I can or if they are unsurmountable I ditch the game system.

If the POW stat becomes meaningless then fine. We'll just ignore the stat then :)

Mind you I'm not anti-magic per se. If it's fantasy campaign then I'm all for magic. But it's including what cannot be possible in the setting I don't want. It would break the suspension big time. I want to immerse myself in the world when I'm playing but if such a glaring thing as magic in a world where there isn't magic is around then it's instant immersion breaker.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby Loz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:23 pm

Our world has no magic. Has no gods(real ones anyway). Has no vampires. No werewolves. No snow girl(reference to japanese folk tale). No fairies etc. Plenty of folk tales about those but they are just that. Folk tales
How does your world treat the kami? Traditional Japanese society reveres both the major and minor kami with Shintoism truly believing that the kami can be called upon and exert real effects upon the physical world according to their nature. The major kami, like Amiterasu, are considered to be very real, very powerful spirits, akin to gods, that require reverence and which can bless, curse, and offer other quasi-magical benefits. These beliefs hold true even today in Japanese society, and in the past were even more strongly felt.

Both Buddhism and Shinto had very real concepts of hell, too, complete with their own gods, demons, kami and monsters of a very magical nature.

You can, of course, eschew humans having any magical knowledge or powers. But where the two religions are concerned, Japanese had, and have, very strong beliefs in this regard.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby PhilHibbs » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:56 pm

tneva82 wrote:If the POW stat becomes meaningless then fine. We'll just ignore the stat then :)
I think that's the only "biggie" - POW is devalued if there is no magic, yet the rules still refer to it in the base chance for a few skills, so if you're using points and someone decides to play a diplomat, they may be tempted to spend points on a stat that is only giving part of the payback for those points that it should give. It's a small balance issue, I think the "base chance" stats were chosen partly with balance in mind so that each stat gave approximately the same amount of benefit to the character.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby Prime_Evil » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:49 pm

PhilHibbs wrote:I think that's the only "biggie" - POW is devalued if there is no magic, yet the rules still refer to it in the base chance for a few skills
In those cases, you can treat POW as a measure of willpower and intuition rather than magical talent.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby PhilHibbs » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:58 pm

Prime_Evil wrote:
PhilHibbs wrote:I think that's the only "biggie" - POW is devalued if there is no magic, yet the rules still refer to it in the base chance for a few skills
In those cases, you can treat POW as a measure of willpower and intuition rather than magical talent.
You could rename it "Wisdom", at the risk of getting confused with some other game.
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Re: samurai of legend

Postby tneva82 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:58 pm

Loz wrote:
Our world has no magic. Has no gods(real ones anyway). Has no vampires. No werewolves. No snow girl(reference to japanese folk tale). No fairies etc. Plenty of folk tales about those but they are just that. Folk tales
How does your world treat the kami? Traditional Japanese society reveres both the major and minor kami with Shintoism truly believing that the kami can be called upon and exert real effects upon the physical world according to their nature.
Like all religion in our world. People can BELIEVE that happen but that doesn't make it happen.

If you don't believe try getting those effects yourself :lol:. Kami has never ever actually caused anything real. They are just that. Folk tales. Just like Jesus turning water to wine. Nice story, didn't happen. If Kami's in Samurai era would have actually CAUSED something then it would be possible to have those same effects this day. But nobody has actually been able to provenly do that...

Just because humans BELIEVE something doesn't make it right. Humans have believed in spirits and gods thorough mankinds existance. Doesn't make them real though.

And humans couple centuries ago were even not that well aware of how world works so were even more likely to believe in what's not real. Christian church tried to make all it could to prevent science from advancing. Likely priests realized even back then science is what's going to cause their influence to drop dramatically. Nobody likes it when their power and riches are threatened ;)
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