Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

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IraShaine1972
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby IraShaine1972 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:15 am

Prime_Evil wrote:Does anybody know if the pdf compilation version released on Drivethru RPG has the same problem?

If so, it should be easy enough to fix the PDF edition at least.
You can DL it in a zip file right here. All 100% complete.

I don't know. The money is spent and it is a nice book but not being complete annoys me. Sure I can print out the approximately 25 missing pages and keep them in a file folder or one of those essay holder things and there it is. If I ever get around to running it I just don't use the book to run that chapter.
It just makes me cautious of what I get from now on. Traveller books aren't extremely expensive but they are not the cheapest either and while they aren't pushing the $50+ mark they are not far behind.
I also wouldn't want Mongoose to switch to an exclusive LBB or Legend format as I really like nice full size books and overall I regard Traveller books as a good buy as the information is usually great, the system is fun and smooth and not mired in mechanics so that the info in books is pretty practical and the books are full size. I just think that this mistake was so utterly obvious I cant see how they could have missed it.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby lastbesthope » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:27 am

Well speaking personally I'm looking for a replacement complete copy to be sent out to me at no cost, or a full refund of the purchase price.

THis is doubly bad coming after the Paranoia Flashbacks Redux missing content debacle which is still in the process of being fixed.

C'mon Matt, at least post a response, justify the faith I have in Mongoose to get stuff sorted out.

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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby Stainless » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:10 am

I remember Matt once writing (I think it was in a State of Mongoose address) that they were a publishing company who happened to publish games as opposed to a games company that happened to published. Well after watching the same inane mistakes being made year in and year out for over ten years, I have to disagree with him. It is demonstrable that his aspiration is a delusion. New staff have come in, new policies/procedures have been promised, but still the same old crap keeps happening. And it's usually stuff that a blind man would fall over. With the exception of the Legend rules, I now buy nothing from Mongoose or wait months to see how the new adopters have found the product. Yes, other companies fall foul of this as well, but not so consistently.

What I wish is that they would invest in some professional QC courses (for all staff from the top down) and get serious about a professional QC workflow.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby msprange » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:33 pm

First off, our deepest apologies for this.

Second, as of Monday, the person responsible no longer works for Mongoose.

Third, we are withdrawing this book immediatly.

Fourth, everyone who has a hardcopy of Secrets will get a replacement, completely free, as soon as it is reprinted (likely towards the end of January).
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby BP » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:44 pm

msprange wrote:First off, our deepest apologies for this.

Second, as of Monday, the person responsible no longer works for Mongoose.

Third, we are withdrawing this book immediatly.

Fourth, everyone who has a hardcopy of Secrets will get a replacement, completely free, as soon as it is reprinted (likely towards the end of January).
True accountability to customers is a rare find in the business world - and my hat is off to a leader and owner who pursues that both fiscally and otherwise.

I was confident Matt would see to correcting this product free of charge for those that purchased it. It is painfully obvious he is taking this seriously. No doubt Mongoose has work to do when it comes to their reputation for quality, but their reputation for customer satisfaction after the sale is impeccable, in my book.

I don't buy hardcopy now-a-days, but I will continue to support Mongoose and their passion for the games I enjoy.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby Boneguard » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:53 pm

msprange wrote: Fourth, everyone who has a hardcopy of Secrets will get a replacement, completely free, as soon as it is reprinted (likely towards the end of January).
I'm glad to hear this. I've received my copy earlier this week and was indeed a bit sadden about the missing chapter.

When the reprint will be ready: how would we go about to have our copy replace? We send you the old one and you send us a new one? Or would is be on an honor system?
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby tneva82 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:29 pm

Boneguard wrote:When the reprint will be ready: how would we go about to have our copy replace? We send you the old one and you send us a new one? Or would is be on an honor system?
IIRC when they did that for highguard we had to mail it to them. Thankfully single book isn't that expensive to mail(atleast wasn't from finland to england and finland has pricy post service).

Of course dunno how it would work this time.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby Boneguard » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:50 pm

tneva82 wrote:
Boneguard wrote:When the reprint will be ready: how would we go about to have our copy replace? We send you the old one and you send us a new one? Or would is be on an honor system?
IIRC when they did that for highguard we had to mail it to them. Thankfully single book isn't that expensive to mail(atleast wasn't from finland to england and finland has pricy post service).
If it only cost me the postage to send it back, I'm quite willing to pay for it.

I've asked because because, last time I had a faulty book, that compagny sent me a new copy just based on my word (although I had bought it off their website so they had proof that I had bought that specific book) whereas here, I bought off from a RPG dealer.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby msprange » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:06 pm

Boneguard wrote: I've asked because because, last time I had a faulty book, that compagny sent me a new copy just based on my word (although I had bought it off their website so they had proof that I had bought that specific book) whereas here, I bought off from a RPG dealer.
We have found that gamers are generally honest people, and usually work on the honour system - it saves you some pennies on postage too :)
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IraShaine1972
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby IraShaine1972 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:13 pm

I ordered mine through the local store. However being that I was the first to point this out it should be pretty obvious I must own a copy.

Will there be a general announcement and instructions posted when the reprint is ready?
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby Vargrz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:15 pm

Matt,
That is very cool of you!
We have found that gamers are generally honest people, and usually work on the honour system - it saves you some pennies on postage too
I bought through an RPG store too, and would gladly send you my copy, at my expense to prove my purchase.

Additionally, I think the willingness to admit errors and the effort to correct them is admirable!

I do not expect perfection from anyone, because I could never achieve it, but I do respect accountability.

I am a grateful and loyal customer of Mongoose and the Traveller line!
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby lastbesthope » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:18 pm

msprange wrote:First off, our deepest apologies for this.
See, I knew my faith was justified 8)
msprange wrote: Second, as of Monday, the person responsible no longer works for Mongoose.
Wow, didn't expect that to be the outcome of our communal outcry. Or was this a straw that broke the proverbial Quality Camel's back? Forget I asked.
msprange wrote: Third, we are withdrawing this book immediatly.
Best way
msprange wrote: Fourth, everyone who has a hardcopy of Secrets will get a replacement, completely free, as soon as it is reprinted (likely towards the end of January).
Excellent.

Just one thing though Matt, when preparing the new edition make very sure it's not missing anything. My quick skim through showed a lot more than just the missing chapter, there were various small bits missing, as well as some weired table placements that kind of broke the flow of the modules.

Also, as you mentioned on the Eye on Mongoose, Step 2 may well be a step in the right direction, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee no further QC/Proofreading problems.

Check check and check again, get more than one person to check, get three other people to check :)

Looking forward to my replacement next year. Maybe along with Materials Treasonously Deleted???

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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby IanBruntlett » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:24 pm

Hi Matt,
msprange wrote:First off, our deepest apologies for this.

Second, as of Monday, the person responsible no longer works for Mongoose.

Third, we are withdrawing this book immediatly.

Fourth, everyone who has a hardcopy of Secrets will get a replacement, completely free, as soon as it is reprinted (likely towards the end of January).
Thanks for that reply. I noticed the anomaly re: number of chapters in SOTA. I figured it was an embarrassing typo and that all relevant chapters were there (family stuff stopped me from looking at it in detail). I must confess I was very shocked when I discovered that a whole chapter was gone. As for the replacement book - take your time, get it right :)

Also, I have copies of the vehicles books (Civilian, Military) and I believe you'll be sending out replacement copies of those books with S5-6 The Vehicle Handbook.

TTFN,


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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby Treebore » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:34 pm

msprange wrote:
Boneguard wrote: I've asked because because, last time I had a faulty book, that compagny sent me a new copy just based on my word (although I had bought it off their website so they had proof that I had bought that specific book) whereas here, I bought off from a RPG dealer.
We have found that gamers are generally honest people, and usually work on the honour system - it saves you some pennies on postage too :)

Well, I for one hadn't bought it yet, so will just wait for the new version to hit distribution. Are you going to do anything that can help us make sure we pick the right version to buy? In case the vendor we end up buying from doesn't get the recall notice?
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby AndrewW » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:02 am

IanBruntlett wrote:Also, I have copies of the vehicles books (Civilian, Military) and I believe you'll be sending out replacement copies of those books with S5-6 The Vehicle Handbook.
I believe what was mentioned was reduced pricing for the new one for those that purchased the older vehicle books.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:27 pm

When they had a problem with one of their other books, all Matt required was a photo of you holding the book (at a jaunty angle as I remember) and he sent out a free replacement (with a little bonus as I remember).

Perhaps something like this could be done again. A jpg file of you holding your hardcopy along with a mailing address and TADA a new book is sent.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby lastbesthope » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:44 pm

AndrewW wrote:
IanBruntlett wrote:Also, I have copies of the vehicles books (Civilian, Military) and I believe you'll be sending out replacement copies of those books with S5-6 The Vehicle Handbook.
I believe what was mentioned was reduced pricing for the new one for those that purchased the older vehicle books.
This is what I remember also

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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby BFalcon » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:13 pm

lastbesthope wrote:
AndrewW wrote:
IanBruntlett wrote:Also, I have copies of the vehicles books (Civilian, Military) and I believe you'll be sending out replacement copies of those books with S5-6 The Vehicle Handbook.
I believe what was mentioned was reduced pricing for the new one for those that purchased the older vehicle books.
This is what I remember also

LBH
Likewise...

I do feel for the guy who got the sack, but then the PDFs for the campaign were out for ages before that book made it to the printers... so he could have compiled them long before the last section came down.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby SJE » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:40 am

Who was the person who got sacked? Is there a Layout & Design person listed in the credits for anyone who has a copy of the book?

Thx.
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Re: Secrets of the Ancients hardback mising something?

Postby Stainless » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:44 am

This is not the first claim by Matt that he's sacked someone over a declarable. I think the Traveller Babylon 5 declarable also ended in a claim of sacking and I think there was another one associated with another Traveller book. Either Mongoose goes through employees at a fair clip or it's good PR to say that someone's been sacked. I'm afraid without photos, it ain't true :lol: We want to see the poor shmoe being kicked out the door (or walking the plank). 8)

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