Has Earth become so weak?

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Tolwyn
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Has Earth become so weak?

Postby Tolwyn » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:10 am

Hello,

I had some 5 Raid games with some friend the last weeks and wondered why Earth was made so weak (exept for certain ships like the Sagittarius).

I Have fewer front weapons and the side Arcs does not make up for it.

Any ideas?
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Postby Burger » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:40 am

EA has always been an "all-rounder" fleet, so it is normal for other fleets to beat it in specific areas. Can you give specific examples of an EA ship compared to an equivalent ship of another race, and why you consider it weaker? You have fewer front weapons than who?? Many people compare the G'Quan to the Omega when complaining about the G'Quan!
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Da Boss
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Postby Da Boss » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:11 am

Some good Earther Ships

Railgun Hyperion - excellent damage dealer, durable (for skirmish)
Olympus Gunship - nasty in squadrons
Hermes - excellent little ship and carries a fighter
Avenger - great pure carrier - whilst not able to stand in the line of battle like a Balvarin, it fulfills its chosen role extremely well.
Hyperion - good all round raid ship
Warlock - excellent war level ship with plenty of options

The ships have usually got good intereceptors - admittedely no use against some races - Vorlons and Minbari - (but they cheat) and often carry fighters.

who are you playing against - EA against Minbari is often a horrible match up - most other races they should have a chance against?
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Postby AdrianH » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:27 am

If you're playing with a Sagittarius (or railgun Hyperion) then you're playing Early Years and the Omega and Warlock aren't available. ;) And the Warlock is probably not a good choice in a 5 point Raid game!

Definitely take more Hyperions, especially if you're playing Early Years and get to use all the variants. And you have some very good fighters, including some which can dogfight reasonably well and carry long range weapons to stand out of anti-fighter range.

Where I find Earth to be weak is in damage points. As noted, they do have interceptors, so the lower damage and crew scores balance this, but also as noted, interceptors are useless against beams and mini-beams. This puts Earth ships at a disadvantage to Minbari in particular, but almost everyone has something with a beam weapon.
Tolwyn
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Postby Tolwyn » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:49 pm

I was disappointed by the new overall weapon placement.
I liked to play EA under 1st Ed as they had good forward batteries and decent sides. Now have benn taken away weapons from the front and placed on the sides (ok the Omega Pulse is an exeption), it needs more strategic movement to counter for this weakness
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Postby Target » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:42 pm

The Olympus in general is one of the best ships out there. I hate those buggers
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Postby No. 1 Bear » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:31 pm

don't run headlong into the enemy manouvare around to get the best shots. Its a game of movement really. Your tactics may need changing rather than your ships.
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Re: Has Earth become so weak?

Postby E-Mines Hurt » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:10 am

Tolwyn wrote:Hello,

I had some 5 Raid games with some friend the last weeks and wondered why Earth was made so weak (exept for certain ships like the Sagittarius).

I Have fewer front weapons and the side Arcs does not make up for it.

Any ideas?
Use tactics. Make a plan; compose the fleet to fit the plan; fight to the plan.

EA has lots of damage and crew; missiles, guns and beams; strong hulls and interceptors; reasonably fast and with more than average maneuverability; lots of excellent fighters with high hull, low dodge including the best medium fighter and best non-minbari light fighter. This is a good toolbox. Get these tools to complement each other.

You can snipe, furball and manoeuvre. Get into a manoeuvre fight with the narn, a sniping fight with the centauri and a furball with the minbari (5+ stealth becomes 2+ stealth when scouted, within 8 inches and shot by a fighter ignoring stealth in base contact; 2 ad twl has an 80% of hitting a 5 hull minbari ship in base contact at least once).

When everybody else is playing paper rocks scissors with only two options EA has three.
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Postby Democratus » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:45 pm

I've had some experience fighting against EA Early Years. The Hyperion is really the star of the show. Pay attention to the Variants, Hyperion hulls that fit in the Skirmish slot are extremely tough for their size.

Use your scouts! You can make nearly any ship's weapons Twin-Linked using scouts. The Early Years Nova is better than the later ones when benefiting from a scout channel. That's 8 AD TL/AP/DD! Few ships will weather this well.

You have a slew of small ships with either missiles or beams as options. The Olympus Gunship is highly specialized, but is an excellent counter against enemies with lots of interceptors and/or high hull values. Your missile ships (Olympus, Hyp-M, Sag) can overwhelm just about anything other than a Centauri ship being escorted by a Maximus.

Never underestimate the value of a few good ramming attacks. If you sacrifice a Skirmish Hyperion hull to kill an opposing Raid ship you end up ahead.

Finally, make sure that if you are playing Early Years that your opponents aren't flying ships that didn't exist during the EY period. There was no Elutarian, Ashinta, or G'Tal in 2230.
Tolwyn
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Postby Tolwyn » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:58 pm

Ok, so I should stick my opponent to the In Serive dates so he has fewer choices.

Any ideas for 3rd Age EA as it is the usual fleet I play?
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locarno24
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Postby locarno24 » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:27 pm

I think 3rd each works really well.

You have a bit of a limited choice, but you have a solid fighting ship at each priority - Warlock, Omega, Nova, Olympus. High-end ships have boresight guns, low end ships don't, so act as initiative sinks for the boresights. Everyone comes with nice handfulls of good quality fighters.

Who is it you tend to play, and what tends to happen?
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Postby Tolwyn » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:20 am

I had a game against a friends Brakiri and wondered why he outgunned me with his ships. His ships especially his Escorts had much more AD in his Secondaries when EA had, and his dozens of Fighters. The Starfuries made no big difference againts his hords of Falkosi. The Avioki sat back and sniped with his Graviton Beam while his smaller ships made the kills.
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Democratus
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Postby Democratus » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:25 pm

Well, if you were fighting with EA:Early there were some things there that look a bit out of place. The Brakiri Halik escort didn't exist till 2250. And the Brikorta is the only carrier in the Early Years time period. Heck, even the Avioki didn't exist in the 2230-2240 time frame. The Aurora is a better, if slower, fighter than the Falkosi. Fly escort with the ships and jump out to intercept them if they fire upon you.

Or, pull out the 3rd age fleet and show the Avioki what a real Battle craft is with the Omega!

Good hunting!
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Postby Burger » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:36 pm

All fleets are meant to be balanced without using ISD's though. Restricting the Brakiri to a choice of 3 ships (one of which is War level) isn't really very sporting!
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Da Boss
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Postby Da Boss » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:44 pm

to be fair - Democratus is just saying that to match the tech - he would be better off using a Third Age fleet than a Early Years.

Another option will be to use a full Dilgar War era fleet from my forthcoming supplement of the same name (hope to be available before the end of the Year) - the Brakiri fleet has 8 ships (although one is unique and I have chanegd some ISDs) and 4 fighter options.

8)
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Postby jedimasterwiggy » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:45 pm

hey all,

I've just started using EA 3rd age fleet in our campaign (Drazi, Vree, Narn) and have so far been a little confused by their roles. I used to play Vree where all the DD and Super manouver covered me a lot but i seem to have struggled to find the correct style with EA.
Hyperions and Omegas seem to need to set up the boresight as main damage dealing shots but then do i not want to be getting closer for all the secondaries. I like novas and artemis's but feel that might just be me going back to my Vree all round fire days and i'd really like to hear some experienced EA players views on ships and basic tactics to look for.

Cheers

Wiggy
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Postby Taran » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:32 am

EA has several choices for play style. But the ultimate goal is to get a boresighted target And have a bunch of other weapons in other arcs pouring it on.

Some, well, probably most, hang back and ping with the boresights as long as possible, others barrel right in and smash it up in the center of the enemy fleet. I like to use a combo of the 2. A few brawlers and a Fire Support ship or 2. With 3A, I usually use Hermes in the FS role.

You ever play BattleTech? EA is a lot like that. You can Rush, Camp or work a Balanced force. Most fleets don't have that choice.
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Postby jedimasterwiggy » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:44 pm

so I look to play at around the 20 inch mark? Using the missiles from lots of hermes and their movement to allow Omega and Hyperions to line up?
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Postby Taran » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:48 pm

EA is very flexible. Try out a bunch of different combinations and find one that works for you.
"Well, if it isn't, then it's not.
But if it is...
Well, there you are."
Da Boss
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Postby Da Boss » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:45 pm

jedimasterwiggy wrote:hey all,

I've just started using EA 3rd age fleet in our campaign (Drazi, Vree, Narn) and have so far been a little confused by their roles. I used to play Vree where all the DD and Super manouver covered me a lot but i seem to have struggled to find the correct style with EA.
Hyperions and Omegas seem to need to set up the boresight as main damage dealing shots but then do i not want to be getting closer for all the secondaries. I like novas and artemis's but feel that might just be me going back to my Vree all round fire days and i'd really like to hear some experienced EA players views on ships and basic tactics to look for.

Cheers

Wiggy
hi - some good advice already but a few things that may help....

fighters - aginast the Drazi - they are immensely useful and you are likely to have the advantage in numbers and quality - esp if you have a Avenger. Against the Narn depends if he has emine ships but otherwise they are good. Against the Vree - its good protection if he brings his excellent fightrs - if not Badgers can work ok.

Aganst the Narn - they have the same bore sight issues you have but one of your advantages is that you have and rear beams allowing you to move through the enemy fleet and still line up shots. Its also worth rembering that the majority of his non beam guns are shorter range so careful movement can take advantage of this. And you have interceptors. - don't be afriad of dueling close up with the Narn- they nromally have little or no defences.

Interceptors are usually extremely effective against the Vree - eps their long range torp ships

I love the Nova model but not seen it achieve much.

Good ships inlcude the Avenger - its carriers great fighters, has commmand and can soak a bit of damage - its not a Balvarin but its good.

The Hyperion is a good all rounder (like most EA ships).

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