Do you think Tanks are too dominant in the game?

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Pietia
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Postby Pietia » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:46 am

cordas wrote: Now if you take those 10 shots at an Abrams cover (1 of which will kill) and fire those same 10 shots at a Challie in cover the Challie will be just as dead from failed armour saves.... Ok its not going to be one shot killed, but those 1 shot kills either happen all the time or never.
The difference here is that the 1 shot kill MAY happen to Abrams and WILL NOT happen for the chally. If you fire at the Abrams in cover, it may die at any moment, but you have to wear the Chally down. That is a big difference.
As for better anti-infantry capabilities and speed: one inch speed difference is not that much, the Challenger may open an extra fire zone as well (with the GMPG) , so the only difference is one MG less (and GMPM instead of .50 cal) - not that much...
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:56 am

My Chally attracts kill rolls like nobody's business. It's bizarre.
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Postby Templar » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:35 pm

nothing kills a challenger like a fleet of shadows.

I used to think they were invincible, and then I discovered that nothing can scare a EFTF player worse than focusing your build on taking as many anti-armor weapons as possible - sure they can die, but a shadow firing from cover can only be hit with the main gun. One will die a turn, to the slew of CKEM death they can rain back.
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Postby Aussie-Richard » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:54 pm

I have TWICE killed Challys with Type99's... It took rolling a 10, but it has happened!

(Of course... the Chally's FRIENDS usually had something to say about it!!)
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Postby Mr Evil » Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:58 pm

chally should be around 335 points i feel maybe evan 340.

Type99 realy should be 300 points atleast,,,

pla troops dont wrack up in points as shown in many posts by many people befor, at 10 man squad with 6" comand, they end up bunched up and die fast or they split up and live a life supressed. drop them to 150 and your in the right area id say,

PLA FAV points cost again is a little high, but only by around 5 points so i can live with that,

PLA command squad is value les, there more exspensive that the EFTF command yet the extra action they give game wise would have les impact, plus they dont have all the gizmos or armour the EFTF have.

Fist and armour seems to be factored into a freeby or pla have been costed to have them but dont !!! Weird.
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Lorcan Nagle
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Postby Lorcan Nagle » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:32 pm

Templar wrote:nothing kills a challenger like a fleet of shadows.

I used to think they were invincible, and then I discovered that nothing can scare a EFTF player worse than focusing your build on taking as many anti-armor weapons as possible - sure they can die, but a shadow firing from cover can only be hit with the main gun. One will die a turn, to the slew of CKEM death they can rain back.
Speaking as primarily an EFTF player, I find Shadows much more worrisome than an Abhrams. thankfully now the SAS are out I've a decent counter - moreso when we get our independent sniper teams :D
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cordas
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Postby cordas » Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:16 pm

Pietia wrote:
cordas wrote: Now if you take those 10 shots at an Abrams cover (1 of which will kill) and fire those same 10 shots at a Challie in cover the Challie will be just as dead from failed armour saves.... Ok its not going to be one shot killed, but those 1 shot kills either happen all the time or never.
The difference here is that the 1 shot kill MAY happen to Abrams and WILL NOT happen for the chally. If you fire at the Abrams in cover, it may die at any moment, but you have to wear the Chally down. That is a big difference.
As for better anti-infantry capabilities and speed: one inch speed difference is not that much, the Challenger may open an extra fire zone as well (with the GMPG) , so the only difference is one MG less (and GMPM instead of .50 cal) - not that much...
It has made quite a difference in the games we have played. its just a balancing act between strenghs and weaknesses.
Mr Evil wrote:chally should be around 335 points i feel maybe evan 340.Type99 realy should be 300 points atleast,,,

pla troops dont wrack up in points as shown in many posts by many people befor, at 10 man squad with 6" comand, they end up bunched up and die fast or they split up and live a life supressed. drop them to 150 and your in the right area id say,

PLA FAV points cost again is a little high, but only by around 5 points so i can live with that,

PLA command squad is value les, there more exspensive that the EFTF command yet the extra action they give game wise would have les impact, plus they dont have all the gizmos or armour the EFTF have.
err... I really don't think you mean for the Challie to be getting hugely cheaper now do you.....

Not sure I would make the type 99 that cheap, but I would maybe drop the PLA squad to 140.

The FAV seems fine to me. Tinkering anything by 5 points is fairly unimportant.

The PLA CQ does get an extra man (abblative armour) that is very nice it gives the CS more firepower, more surivivability, an easy time calling in artillery and less likely to be suppressed. Yes it looses on armour and FIST, but hey.
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Postby Mr Evil » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:13 pm

thing with pla FAV is its just a technical with an biger gun added but less range. and to use the guns at full effect it cant move but if it doesnt move its basicly a paper bag.
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Postby Cailet » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:51 pm

anton970 wrote:
Chinks.... I'm sure "pla" pete and his ramming transprts can give you the low down on that! looks more like a destuction derby by the end of it!
Well what else am I gonna do when I can't shoot for toffee? It's more like Mario Kart than BF:E in there some days :twisted:
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Postby Templar » Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:06 pm

Lorcan Nagle wrote:
Templar wrote:nothing kills a challenger like a fleet of shadows.

I used to think they were invincible, and then I discovered that nothing can scare a EFTF player worse than focusing your build on taking as many anti-armor weapons as possible - sure they can die, but a shadow firing from cover can only be hit with the main gun. One will die a turn, to the slew of CKEM death they can rain back.
Speaking as primarily an EFTF player, I find Shadows much more worrisome than an Abhrams. thankfully now the SAS are out I've a decent counter - moreso when we get our independent sniper teams :D
Trust me, I know... every wave seems to go back and forth... and i really don't want to deal with those SAS snipers, or any snipers for that matter...

However, I guess everyone else will have to deal with the supercobra soon enough, so I can't complain too much!
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Postby EmperorNortonII » Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:15 pm

Templar wrote:
Lorcan Nagle wrote:
Templar wrote:nothing kills a challenger like a fleet of shadows.

I used to think they were invincible, and then I discovered that nothing can scare a EFTF player worse than focusing your build on taking as many anti-armor weapons as possible - sure they can die, but a shadow firing from cover can only be hit with the main gun. One will die a turn, to the slew of CKEM death they can rain back.
Speaking as primarily an EFTF player, I find Shadows much more worrisome than an Abhrams. thankfully now the SAS are out I've a decent counter - moreso when we get our independent sniper teams :D
Trust me, I know... every wave seems to go back and forth... and i really don't want to deal with those SAS snipers, or any snipers for that matter...

However, I guess everyone else will have to deal with the supercobra soon enough, so I can't complain too much!
I'll happily deal with your copter when you have to deal with mine, mate.

Granted, my AA trucks should be a lot nastier than your stinger teams will be.

Hooray for better eastern missile technology, eh?
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Postby Gorzag » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:42 pm

I've only got a few games under my belt, but even now I'll have to agree that chally should be a bit more expensive and type 99 cheaper. However there is an effective way to defeat the challenger(or any armour) with PLA. Climb up.

Just recently we played a 2500 points game(two 1500pts british forces versus 2500 PLA). We had three challengers(bad day for the chinese) which took out PLA tanks on turn two. However our tanks couldn't advance on the infantry because there were four PLA squads high in buildings effectively creating a no go area for our tanks. He kept them hidden until the end game so we couldn't take them out from afar either.

Thankfully there was more action on other side of the board. A single SAS squad versus about a fourth of the PLA army proved quite a fair match.
With the help of a warrior and a command unit the SAS won it in the end (only one survived though). They do really rock.
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Postby The Old Soldier » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:03 am

Destroy the buildings. Problem solved. The Bane of Armor will be Air Power when it comes out.

and YES, the poor PLA Type 99 was given NO love. You could give it the option to have the main gun a D10+4 and leave the price the same, or lower the cost to 300 pts. As for the Chally, raise the price 45pts. Once Kill number reach high levels each leave should cost more than the last, because each one increase effectiveness.

While your at it change the cost for the PLA infantry too.
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Postby Adastra » Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:11 am

I'm waiting to see the stats for the Zulquifar. If it has similar stats to the Type 99 AND a lower cost....then it'll be pitchfork-and-torches time :x

Speaking of which, any chance we'll get a sneak preview of the cards for the next wave?
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Postby Cailet » Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:34 am

Adastra wrote:I'm waiting to see the stats for the Zulquifar. If it has similar stats to the Type 99 AND a lower cost....then it'll be pitchfork-and-torches time :x

Speaking of which, any chance we'll get a sneak preview of the cards for the next wave?
I saw some playtest cards and it was a T99 with less machine guns I think.

And 25 points cheaper.

But that was months back at one of the open days so don't take that too seriously, I was busier reading my AA cards :P
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Postby Captain_Nemo » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:51 pm

No.
I said,"Qapla! Baaaaby!"
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Captain_Nemo
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Postby Captain_Nemo » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:52 pm

Do you think Tanks are too dominant in the game?
No.
I said,"Qapla! Baaaaby!"
kodiak155
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Postby kodiak155 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:35 am

I think it's a fair trade-off since the MEA and PLA have anti-armor weapons in their sqads and the ETF and USMC don't. Just depends on how you use 'em.
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britneyfan97
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Postby britneyfan97 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:05 am

Ran a few demos yesterday. In round 1 the USMC got cocky and drove their M1A2 down a street to take a shot at some Fedayeen in a ruined building. The devil dogs killed two Feds with MG fire, and in the Fed turn they let off with a pair of Koronets... both rolling nat10's!

Needless to say, this new player (and former real life M1 crewman!) was feeling the hurt for a while!
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Postby Captain_Nemo » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:40 pm

Regarding britneyfan97's post

:lol: :lol:

Oh that poor effer!

PS I've done that too.
I said,"Qapla! Baaaaby!"

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