War at Sea

Discuss the Victory at Sea range of naval games.

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hyndridge
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War at Sea

Postby hyndridge » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:38 pm

Just got hold of the new Axis & Allies War at Sea game from Wizards of the Coast.

Hope Mongoose dont mind me mentioning a competitor, pull the thread if you do.

Not had chance to read the rules or play the game but the miniatures are plastic and pre-painted and look to be about 1/2000th scale.

Some of the painting is pretty dodgy and some is pretty good, the Japanese Aircraft Carrier is very nice!

You could use these miniatures for VaS but the range is limited.

What I do think could be very useful is the aircraft, I have seen some nice Jap and Brit planes which are idea for VaS.

Only problem is that when you buy a booster you get random figures so are not able to just buy the planes on their own.

I really don't think that this game is a serious rival to VaS.

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Postby Captain_Nemo » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:42 am

Thanks for the tip. I saw these in my LGS today and talked myself out of buying them but I may give them a shot now.
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Postby BuShips » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:22 am

Just remember that they are not made to a constant scale across the board, so you might wish to know that. I won't be picking any up, but if you like 'em, buy 'em. :)
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Postby hyndridge » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:16 am

If you want to get some then it might be worth looking for some one who is selling the models separately, then you can pick up exactly what you want.

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Postby Warjammy » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:25 pm

I work for a company directly connected to WOTC, I saw a release on these and while I'd rather build/paint my own ships, I think the aircraft could be great. I'm supposed to have a box of samples coming, i'll let you know how they are and maybe try them out in a game and post some pictures.
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Postby Taellik » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:54 pm

How do the availabe ship mini's compare to the fleet lists in VaS?

Can all the ships be used or WAS just a "sampler" of ships ?
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Postby Soulmage » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:15 pm

There are very very few ships in the WaS line that match up with VaS stats.

Also, while some of the larger ships look decent in the pictures, by and large the detail on the "models" if you can call them that is very poor.

Panzerschiffe will give you much higher quality in a better scale for less money. Plus they have exactly what VaS has.

GHQ will give you much much much better quality for a much higher price though.
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Postby Fanaticus » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:45 am

Hi,

Before commenting, did anyone saw any WaS miniatures for real, in the flesh?

Talking about quality and details, you can see one example here:

Image

There are several other similar examples in the WaS line, as there are some others less accomplished.

In overall, the quality could be way, way worst.

Saying that Panzerschiffe will give you much higher quality is not really correct. Their quality is very similar in most of the cases to NAVWAR, doggy to say the least. Inexpensive, good range, but low on detail and quality varies from model to model.

GHQ is cream of the top, with a price to match, it should not even be used in a comparison to other related miniatures lines, it is not fair. 8)

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Postby Soulmage » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:20 pm

That picture is misleading.

The reviewers over at Tabletopgamingnews.com admitted that the largest ships like the aircraft carriers do indeed look decent.

But the bulk of your fleet is not made of aircraft carriers and their detail does appear to be inferior to Panzerschiffe or Navwar.
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Postby Fanaticus » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:02 pm

Not as much as your misleading comment of Panzershiffe or Navwar being superior in detail.

They are not.

Navwar, for example, is fairly inexpensive but poor in detail and quality of the casting, that varies from model to model it is not even consistent on a given model. And I know as I have them.

And the picture above is one example, and that one is not misleading.

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Postby BuShips » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:56 pm

Any miniature beats using counters, so I'm fine with them all, lol. :D
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Postby Soulmage » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:50 pm

Fanaticus wrote:Not as much as your misleading comment of Panzershiffe or Navwar being superior in detail.

They are not.

Navwar, for example, is fairly inexpensive but poor in detail and quality of the casting, that varies from model to model it is not even consistent on a given model. And I know as I have them.

And the picture above is one example, and that one is not misleading.
Providing a shot of the best is misleading when you represent it as typical for the system.

Here is a shot of several Panzerschiffe ships with a destroyer clearly visible front and center, and a light cruiser just behind.

Image

Why don't you share with us what a War at Sea destroyers and light cruisers look like and folks can decide for themselves?
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Postby E Nicely » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:05 pm

Fanaticus wrote:
Before commenting, did anyone saw any WaS miniatures for real, in the flesh?

In overall, the quality could be way, way worst.


GHQ is cream of the top, with a price to match, it should not even be used in a comparison to other related miniatures lines, it is not fair. 8)
A couple friends of mine bought some WaS booster packs and I was looking at them this weekend. The painted lines on the carriers and some other details were pretty nice. There was ship cammo too, which is nice because I hate painting cammo. But they're just too big IMO. I won't use or buy any (I might pick up some aircraft on the secondary market) but if someone doesn't want to paint or assemble minis they might be an option. As far as quality goes I've seen worse.

And yes, GHQ rules the naval minis world :)
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Postby juggler69uk » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:25 pm

BuShips wrote:Just remember that they are not made to a constant scale across the board, so you might wish to know that
How far different are the scales ?

Is it noticeable ?
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Postby Wulf Corbett » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:16 am

Fanaticus wrote:Navwar, for example, is fairly inexpensive but poor in detail and quality of the casting, that varies from model to model it is not even consistent on a given model. And I know as I have them..
Have you actually seen Navwar ships, or are you going by the photos? I would never say they are lacking in detail, for their size they are more than adequate, and many quite intricate. Photos are almost invariably greater than lifesize, and any model will suffer in a blown up picture. I also have no problem at all with the casting quality, it's better than many.

Complaints & criticisms over Navwar are almost invariably a result of comparison with GHQ - and equally invariably come from people prepared to buy a single GHQ ship for a price that would buy a whole fleet in Navwar!

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Postby Fanaticus » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:38 am

Soulmage wrote:Providing a shot of the best is misleading when you represent it as typical for the system.
Err...
When did I said that?
Please, take some time to REAL read what I wrote and said.
I provided one example, that's all. And I already stated that twice.
And I even said that other models are less accomplished in quality (once again, read above)

Don't put words in my mouth, just to prove your point.
Soulmage wrote:Why don't you share with us what a War at Sea destroyers and light cruisers look like and folks can decide for themselves?
When I have some, and when I find the time to do it...
But why, IS everyone wanting on me?

Nobody bought any WaS?
Why?

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Postby Fanaticus » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:57 am

Wulf Corbett wrote:
Fanaticus wrote:Navwar, for example, is fairly inexpensive but poor in detail and quality of the casting, that varies from model to model it is not even consistent on a given model. And I know as I have them..
Have you actually seen Navwar ships, or are you going by the photos? I would never say they are lacking in detail, for their size they are more than adequate, and many quite intricate. Photos are almost invariably greater than lifesize, and any model will suffer in a blown up picture. I also have no problem at all with the casting quality, it's better than many.

Complaints & criticisms over Navwar are almost invariably a result of comparison with GHQ - and equally invariably come from people prepared to buy a single GHQ ship for a price that would buy a whole fleet in Navwar!

Wulf
Hey, Did you read the text you've quoted?
I «actually seen» then, because I have them, bought and paid.

I have several NAVWAR fleets (different time periods) mainly due to the price, and they are good enough for long run, but I still have eyes to see the end quality and casting problems of the models.

The models are fairly inexpensive but poor in detail and quality of the casting, that varies from model to model it is not even consistent on a given model.

...or NAVWAR has be selling sub-par products to all its clients in Portugal, as also know several other people here with the same opinion, and I even saw their models and I have to agree...
(there, I gave here some escape arguments)


As I already said, using GHQ as comparison in quality should not even be used as an argument. They are best, is unfair for any other brand for quality comparisons. Prices would be other matter.

Now using NAVWAR as comparison to say that WaS models are extremely poor... please, no can do. 8)

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Postby DM » Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:01 pm

IMHO I would say that the level of detail in a Navwar, Denian or Davco model is generlaly commensurate with the scale. One could argue that GHQ modles are seriously OVER detailed and that some of the detailing is horrendously oversized.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter.
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Postby jfox61 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:30 pm

I have to agree with DM here it doesn't really matter what you buy and use so long as you are happy with them. I use GHQ having used navwar and davco for years. I prefer the extra detail. Yes I agree they are over engineered and so forth but I like the deck detail and the amount of spare parts you get in a kit is excellent. Some people like the dck detail others think it shouldn't be shown at that small a scale. At the end of the day you pays your money and takes your choice. Davco and Navar ships would build into a sizeable fleet for a fraction of the cost of GHQ. I think the main problem with them is that the comapanies have not updated their moulds for years and now are suffering quailitively because of it but at 25% of the cost of a similar GHQ they are still value for money. One other point though is that although way more expensive the GHQ models are larger in scale so you can incorporate higher levels of detail. You also need to think about opponents in your are. No good having a corking fleet of GHQ if the only opponents you can find in your area use the smaller scales of Navwar and Davco
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Postby BuShips » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:51 pm

juggler69uk wrote:
BuShips wrote:Just remember that they are not made to a constant scale across the board, so you might wish to know that
How far different are the scales ?

Is it noticeable ?
I might even be incorrect in them not being a consistant scale, but it has been the case in previous A&A minis. They are supposed to be 1/1800 in scale iirc.
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