Lack of 300 ton ships?

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EvilDM
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Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby EvilDM » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:38 pm

I looked through all my books (not a complete collection, far from it) and I noticed that there are quite few 300 ton ships. Is there any reason why?
In my opinion 300 tons would be ideal for many groups.
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Reynard
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby Reynard » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:43 pm

Haven't looked that hard. Have you noticed if there's a lack of odd tonnages. Maybe people gravitate to designing even tons.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:18 pm

Reynard wrote:Haven't looked that hard. Have you noticed if there's a lack of odd tonnages. Maybe people gravitate to designing even tons.
You could solve that problem
Design a 300, a 500, a 700, and a 900-ton starship.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby dragoner » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:23 pm

Seen a few, but you are right, they are a bit rare.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby phavoc » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:01 pm

There is a Imperial tax on oddness.
sideranautae
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby sideranautae » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:12 pm

I did a search for topic titles of 300 ton and found only one: viewtopic.php?f=89&t=45944&p=651000&view=show#p651000
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Reynard
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby Reynard » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:25 pm

Jeez, now I have another task to inventory every ship book for odd and even tonnages!
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby ieqo » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:00 am

One possible reason might be that 300 tons on the drive performance tables hits a sour spot in that in many cases (for sure in the case of Jump 2, possibly others but I don't have it in front of me) the drive required for a given performance is the same as for a 400-ton ship. Some (and you know who you are) consider something like that so criminally inefficient that they just make a 400-ton ship anyway.

Others (such as Yours Truly) consider this a "sweet spot" instead and take advantage of the oppurtunity to throw on demountable fuel tanks, cargo pods, external cradles, etc.
:arrow:
Off the top of my head I can think of two 300-ton ships in the published works: the Indigo-class pirate carrier in Scoundrel and the Rhapsody-class trader in Merchants and Cruisers. The latter ship however needs either a correction of a typo (it lists a performance of Jump-2, but drive and fuel for Jump-1), or some simple redesign to make it actually Jump-2.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby tuz_sen » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:12 am

Heres a 300 strike ship I designed
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... sp=sharing

I agree that 300 tons is a undervalues tonnage.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby GypsyComet » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:42 am

One of my favorite "You fly one of those!?!" ships is FASA's 500 ton Maru.

Several editions have no letter drive bias in the small ships, and you'll see all sizes for those. I should probably convert the 300 tonner I did for TNE, as it might work a little better without those ginormous turret cans.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby middenface » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:38 am

Damn the typo on the Rhapsody is my fault. Oops.

How about this little 300 tonner..

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/1 ... Freelancer
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:13 pm

Most designers avoid the 300-ton size, and others, since the Drive Tables make these tonnages uneconomical and "off". You have to buy 400-ton drives, so might as well use a 400-ton hull.

HOWEVER, the Outer Veil setting by Spica Publishing has several 300-ton designs...
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby EvilDM » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:37 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:Most designers avoid the 300-ton size, and others, since the Drive Tables make these tonnages uneconomical and "off". You have to buy 400-ton drives, so might as well use a 400-ton hull.

HOWEVER, the Outer Veil setting by Spica Publishing has several 300-ton designs...
That may be, but 300 ton designs are still cheaper, imo cheap enough for parties to realistically have, have a good amount of turrets a party can realistically manage to man and enough space to have a jack of all trades ship with gadgets and cargo space.
ieqo wrote:One possible reason might be that 300 tons on the drive performance tables hits a sour spot in that in many cases (for sure in the case of Jump 2, possibly others but I don't have it in front of me) the drive required for a given performance is the same as for a 400-ton ship. Some (and you know who you are) consider something like that so criminally inefficient that they just make a 400-ton ship anyway.
I do not see a bad spot, at least at Jump 2.
A 300 ton Jump 2 needs Drive C while a 400 ton hull needs D.
There isn't really any instance where the 300 ton hull can't get the same performance than the 400 ton hull with a drive 1 size smaller except for jump/thrust 1
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby dragoner » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:10 pm

Ian Stead (middenface is his nickname here I think) has been working on a stretched A2, which I think is 300 tons: http://biomassart.wordpress.com/2014/08/

Yes, it is 300 tons.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby sideranautae » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:26 pm

EvilDM wrote: There isn't really any instance where the 300 ton hull can't get the same performance than the 400 ton hull with a drive 1 size smaller except for jump/thrust 1
Which means very few merchant 300 tonners.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby EvilDM » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:49 pm

sideranautae wrote:
EvilDM wrote: There isn't really any instance where the 300 ton hull can't get the same performance than the 400 ton hull with a drive 1 size smaller except for jump/thrust 1
Which means very few merchant 300 tonners.
Apart from the Free and Fat trader in the core books most merchant ships I can find (mostly in the Alien Modules) are Jump 2.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby sideranautae » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:59 pm

EvilDM wrote:
sideranautae wrote:
EvilDM wrote: There isn't really any instance where the 300 ton hull can't get the same performance than the 400 ton hull with a drive 1 size smaller except for jump/thrust 1
Which means very few merchant 300 tonners.
Apart from the Free and Fat trader in the core books most merchant ships I can find (mostly in the Alien Modules) are Jump 2.
In the Imperium frontier areas it is mostly 200t J1 Free traders. As far as sheer numbers of ships... Non subsidized J2 merchants are not economically that viable based on freight and passenger rates
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby DickTurpin » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:11 pm

300 tons is an inefficient number compared to a 200 ton hull. The bridge doubles in size, all drives must be on size larger, they require more fuel for the same performance, armor and weapons increase in space and cost needed (if used).

An unarmed free trader increased to 300 tons would cost an additional MCr. 29.9 for an increase in cargo capacity of 63 tons. That gives a monthly cost increase (mortgage and maintenance) of Cr. 274,083 which means you would need to make Cr. 4,000/ton just to cover the costs. Adding passenger space or hauling freight won't net the needed cash, only good quality speculative trade will do it, assuming you can consistently fill a 151 ton cargo hold.

Jumping from a 300 ton hull up to a 400 ton hull is only MCr. 14.7 more and grants an additional 85 tons more cargo space, a much more efficient ratio.
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Re: Lack of 300 ton ships?

Postby Golan2072 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:03 am

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:HOWEVER, the Outer Veil setting by Spica Publishing has several 300-ton designs...
Yep, FOUR of them, out of a dozen or so ships - a Patrol Frigate, an Assault Frigate (a common mercenary/pirate ship), a Lab Ship and a long-range Explorer. All with deckplans and renders...
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