Question about Jumping

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sideranautae
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby sideranautae » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:07 pm

travchao999 wrote:So then, lets say you want to go from earth to mars, and you have to go around the sun (just using this example since its in the book as an example of getting pulled out of jump),
Won't work. "Early" as used in the quote I gave denotes distance, not time. You still are in jump for a week...
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Reynard
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby Reynard » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:23 pm

sid, thank you for finding that passage again! I read the rules back and forth and some get missed or forgotten in the myriad rules around it. However, the next column and two paragraphs down it states "While in jump space, the ship is completely and utterly cut off from the universe." and "It cannot communicate with the normal universe, not even by psionic means. It is utterly alone." This may be where I got my conception. It seems to contradict the other paragraph with all those absolutes. I can see maybe it's a difference between electromagnetic and gravity but psionic as well? When I think about it, gravity shapes the universe while radiation merely passes through.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby sideranautae » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:45 pm

Reynard wrote:sid, thank you for finding that passage again! I read the rules back and forth and some get missed or forgotten in the myriad rules around it. However, the next column and two paragraphs down it states "While in jump space, the ship is completely and utterly cut off from the universe." and "It cannot communicate with the normal universe, not even by psionic means. It is utterly alone." This may be where I got my conception. It seems to contradict the other paragraph with all those absolutes. I can see maybe it's a difference between electromagnetic and gravity but psionic as well? When I think about it, gravity shapes the universe while radiation merely passes through.
If I didn't use pdf search I'd go nuts as the rules are 'hidden' in sentences and paragraphs spread throughout the work. I think when they do a 2nd Edition CRB attention should be paid to consolidation of rules into single chapters. It is difficult as I'm finding while trying to write comprehensive but concise rules for MY players. Lot of ground to cover.
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travchao999
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:42 pm

sideranautae wrote:
travchao999 wrote:So then, lets say you want to go from earth to mars, and you have to go around the sun (just using this example since its in the book as an example of getting pulled out of jump),
Won't work. "Early" as used in the quote I gave denotes distance, not time. You still are in jump for a week...
It's really strange to think about how that would be. I figured that the universe lasted about a week, until it naturally stopped existing, and that dictates maximum jump, but then it could end early from gravity.

But hmmm...I guess it could be some sort of weird rule of the quantum universe (since quantum is weird and sometimes has rules separate from normal time) where the universe WILL last a week in realspace, and (if the bubble was formed correctly) also a "week" in jumpspace. I suppose that's not too big of a leap.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby rust » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:47 pm

travchao999 wrote:
But hmmm...I guess it could be some sort of weird rule of the quantum universe ...
"The time quantum (= minimum amount of time) of hyperspace is
equivalent to one week in normal space." :wink:
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby sideranautae » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:48 pm

travchao999 wrote:
But hmmm...I guess it could be some sort of weird rule of the quantum universe (since quantum is weird and sometimes has rules separate from normal time) where the universe WILL last a week in realspace, and (if the bubble was formed correctly) also a "week" in jumpspace. I suppose that's not too big of a leap.
The rules never mention anything about Jump Space being a "quantum mechanics" effect... Just how Jump Space works. But, whatever works for your players.
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travchao999
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:51 pm

sideranautae wrote:
travchao999 wrote:
But hmmm...I guess it could be some sort of weird rule of the quantum universe (since quantum is weird and sometimes has rules separate from normal time) where the universe WILL last a week in realspace, and (if the bubble was formed correctly) also a "week" in jumpspace. I suppose that's not too big of a leap.
The rules never mention anything about Jump Space being a "quantum mechanics" effect... Just how Jump Space works. But, whatever works for your players.
I believe in fiction somewhere I read that jumpspace is based on quantum mechanics.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:53 pm

rust wrote:
travchao999 wrote:
But hmmm...I guess it could be some sort of weird rule of the quantum universe ...
"The time quantum (= minimum amount of time) of hyperspace is
equivalent to one week in normal space." :wink:
Is that a quote from somewhere? Source? Also, and the time experienced in jumpspace is a week too, yes? (Of course, baring some sort of awful jump malfunction)
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby sideranautae » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:55 pm

travchao999 wrote: I believe in fiction somewhere I read that jumpspace is based on quantum mechanics.
I have no idea. I am only talking about what is in Traveller game rules. Not disrelated works.
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rust
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby rust » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:00 pm

travchao999 wrote: Is that a quote from somewhere? Source?
It is a quote from my house rules ... 8)
Also, and the time experienced in jumpspace is a week too, yes? (Of course, baring some sort of awful jump malfunction)
Yes.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:01 pm

sideranautae wrote:
travchao999 wrote: I believe in fiction somewhere I read that jumpspace is based on quantum mechanics.
I have no idea. I am only talking about what is in Traveller game rules. Not disrelated works.
I'm talking third imperium, but I guess still technically unrelated.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby sideranautae » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:02 pm

rust wrote: It is a quote from my house rules ... 8)
Rust's posts on here are well worth perusing. Lots of good material for a Traveller GM...
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travchao999
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:12 pm

sideranautae wrote:
rust wrote: It is a quote from my house rules ... 8)
Rust's posts on here are well worth perusing. Lots of good material for a Traveller GM...
I will do when I get off of work, in case I want to save pages for future use.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:19 pm

I'm still quite curious about one other thing though. So when the pocket universe inflates, before the edge of the bubble is outside the ship, aren't people going to be directly exposed to jump space? Just wondering.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby sideranautae » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:24 pm

travchao999 wrote:I'm still quite curious about one other thing though. So when the pocket universe inflates, before the edge of the bubble is outside the ship, aren't people going to be directly exposed to jump space? Just wondering.
No idea what you are referring to. Pls cite a page in the rule book that says anything about a bubble INSIDE the craft.
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travchao999
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:29 pm

sideranautae wrote:
travchao999 wrote:I'm still quite curious about one other thing though. So when the pocket universe inflates, before the edge of the bubble is outside the ship, aren't people going to be directly exposed to jump space? Just wondering.
No idea what you are referring to. Pls cite a page in the rule book that says anything about a bubble INSIDE the craft.
Well, so when the bubble gets folded over the craft, it must have to pass through the craft, correct? Well, hm, I guess if the bubble interacted with the solid object like a normal solid interaction, the bubble would be interrupted by the ship on one edge until it got to the other end of the ship.

I guess it also depends on how the jump drive is placed in the ship.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby sideranautae » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:34 pm

travchao999 wrote:
Well, so when the bubble gets folded over the craft, it must have to pass through the craft, correct?
If it were formed in our 3 dimensional universe it might. However...
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travchao999
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:52 pm

sideranautae wrote:
travchao999 wrote:
Well, so when the bubble gets folded over the craft, it must have to pass through the craft, correct?
If it were formed in our 3 dimensional universe it might. However...
I guess that does kinda make sense, but still, it makes it sound like it doesn't cover the whole ship at once, which makes it seem like there's a time when half of the ship is in the other universe.
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby sideranautae » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:11 pm

travchao999 wrote:
sideranautae wrote:
travchao999 wrote:
Well, so when the bubble gets folded over the craft, it must have to pass through the craft, correct?
If it were formed in our 3 dimensional universe it might. However...
I guess that does kinda make sense, but still, it makes it sound like it doesn't cover the whole ship at once, which makes it seem like there's a time when half of the ship is in the other universe.
Depends if the JD puts out a field energy all around the ship and injects hydrogen, it would form around the ship without passing through it. At the same time considering it is a vacuum... 8)
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Re: Question about Jumping

Postby travchao999 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:25 pm

sideranautae wrote:
travchao999 wrote:
sideranautae wrote:
If it were formed in our 3 dimensional universe it might. However...
I guess that does kinda make sense, but still, it makes it sound like it doesn't cover the whole ship at once, which makes it seem like there's a time when half of the ship is in the other universe.
Depends if the JD puts out a field energy all around the ship and injects hydrogen, it would form around the ship without passing through it. At the same time considering it is a vacuum... 8)
but there's no energy field, the book states that the only field is the bubble, which is really just a singularity (which is where the quantum bit probably came from, as most singularities tend to be quantum based), that is blown up like a balloon by hydrogen, and then folded over the ship.

Maybe I'm just not picturing it right...

Also sorry, I just tend to obsess about little things like this.

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