Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

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Jak Nazryth
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Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby Jak Nazryth » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:17 pm

Does anyone know what Mongoose supplements these two items appear in?
What's the price per ton, and for bladders, is it still 15% or their full capacity when stored empty?
Thanks.
AndrewW
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby AndrewW » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:57 pm

Jak Nazryth wrote:Does anyone know what Mongoose supplements these two items appear in?
What's the price per ton, and for bladders, is it still 15% or their full capacity when stored empty?
Thanks.
http://www.wuala.com/AndrewW/Traveller/ ... nents.png/

There isn't much on fuel bladders though.
Meanderer
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby Meanderer » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:05 am

Not sure about fuel bladders either. A flexible membrane/bag for holding fuel doesn't seem like a good storage method.

Remember the exotic atmospheres in Traveller, particularly corrosive and insidious. Corrosive requires a vacc suit. Insidious will defeat a vacc suit's protection with prolonged exposure.
Keeping that in mind, the most insidious atmosphere is hydrogen. the smallest atom, it can seep through gaps that are otherwise (and still) considered airtight.

You basically need a collapsible section of starship hull to hold the fuel. 15% may be okay. The collapsible shelter from classic traveler is about 12-13 tons and collapses down to 6 tons but that contains life support and furniture too. If you don't need any internal fixtures the walls can be collapsed down more efficiently. It shouldn't take up more than 25% of the fuel capacity.

I have had collapsible fuel tanks in my Traveller univerese. I had two types. One had some flexibility in how you attached hull sides (a set of 1.49 m x 1.49 m panels that could be assembled in a multitude of shapes (just count the sides with one panel per side) with one special side and hoses to assist in filling/draining the modular fuel tank. This allowed cargo space to be turned into a fuel tank at a loss of 5%. That is , a 42 ton expanded tank can hold 40 tons of fuel. Not as efficient as building a larger fuel tank into the design of the ship, but a flexible way to get a jump 1 ship to be able to travel 2 or more parsecs (though still jump 1 at a time).

It will take time to pump out the collapsible tank (into the main fuel tank where it can be used for the jump drive) but this can be done while the jump drive is cycling to prepare for a new jump (takes hours anyway).

A more expensive alternative would be a fuel tank built to fit into a specific cargo hold. It may have no waste space (or maybe just 1 or 2%), costing more but eventually paying for itself in less lost space. It may not fit in other ships.
sideranautae
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby sideranautae » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:24 am

Meanderer wrote: Keeping that in mind, the most insidious atmosphere is hydrogen. the smallest atom, it can seep through gaps that are otherwise (and still) considered airtight.
Not to worry. A carbon membrane was just invented (someone posted about it a couple days ago). One layer stops helium atoms. Multiple (very thin) layers stops hydrogen. TL 7 stuff. I just wouldn't want it in LHyd form (and temp) in anything flimsy.

Better to use bladders to hold the hydrogen in ammonia form or H2O. Plus it is ~1.6X as efficient to store hydrogen like that over L-hyd.
Last edited by sideranautae on Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Condottiere
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby Condottiere » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:48 am

Or you could keep it as water, and since the power plant is going full blast during transition, you have sufficient time and energy to refine it.
Reynard
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby Reynard » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:32 pm

First reference to special fuel tankage is in MegaTravller. Since we found a Mongoose reference for Dismountable I shall add the Collapsible (fuel bladder). It costs Cr.472 per ton. When empty, it takes no space. The stored fuel must be pumped to the regular fuel tank before use.

I also see there is an external dismountable tank. Fixed, semi-permanent bolted to the ship and considered and treated as permanent tanks fueling directly. Costs CR.472. The ship is considered one configuration level worst (streamlined -> standard -> distributed) and increases the displacement of the ship. Can be dismounted in two weeks.
sideranautae
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby sideranautae » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:11 pm

Reynard wrote:First reference to special fuel tankage is in MegaTravller. Since we found a Mongoose reference for Dismountable I shall add the Collapsible (fuel bladder).
MGT Spinward Marches book, pg. 108: "There are two ways to cross the gap to Candory. The simplest is to use a Jump–3 capable vessel. However, it is also possible to fit extra fuel tanks in a ship’s hold. Collapsible ‘fuel bladders’ and more permanent conversions are both commercially available."
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DickTurpin
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby DickTurpin » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:07 pm

Collapsible and demountable tanks both appear in Trillion Credit Squadron.

Collapsible tanks take up 1% of their space when empty and cost Cr. 500/ton of capacity. They cannot transfer fuel fast enough to be used for jump fuel.

Demountable tanks are rigid tanks that always use their full space but can be used for jump fuel. They cost Cr, 1,000/ton of capacity.

And of course there are external drop tanks that are mounted externally in High Guard.
Reynard
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby Reynard » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:07 pm

Interesting way to make sure you have to buy ALL the source books.
sideranautae
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby sideranautae » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:31 pm

DickTurpin wrote:Collapsible tanks take up 1% of their space when empty and cost Cr. 500/ton of capacity. They cannot transfer fuel fast enough to be used for jump fuel.
I wouldn't even use them for L-hyd in the 1st place. Thanks for the specs.
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Egil Skallagrimsson
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Re: Dismountable fuel tanks and fuel bladders

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:00 pm

DickTurpin wrote:Collapsible and demountable tanks both appear in Trillion Credit Squadron.

Collapsible tanks take up 1% of their space when empty and cost Cr. 500/ton of capacity. They cannot transfer fuel fast enough to be used for jump fuel.

Demountable tanks are rigid tanks that always use their full space but can be used for jump fuel. They cost Cr, 1,000/ton of capacity.

And of course there are external drop tanks that are mounted externally in High Guard.
Considering the general cheapness of ship equipment, and that fuel capacity is "no cost" when designing ships, the 1000Cr/ton of capacity always looked a bit expensive for a gas proof box, I could see 100Cr/ton for demountables making more sense, but keep the 500Cr/ton for collapsibles as the flexibility and design required would cost a bit more. However, I work on the assumption that the fuel from such tanks has to pumped into the main tanks before used for jump, not normally a problem as, after coming out of jump in a rift between two systems, the navigator will spend sometime sorting out the astrogation for the next jump, while the engineer sorts out the fuel transfer.

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