Capped Zhodani education level

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
User avatar
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2968
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Capped Zhodani education level

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:34 am

In Alien book 4 on page 3, it is said that education is capped by the social standing level during CharGen. Does this apply to proles or non-proles?
Prime_Evil
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1521
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:41 am

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Prime_Evil » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:10 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:In Alien book 4 on page 3, it is said that education is capped by the social standing level during CharGen. Does this apply to proles or non-proles?
The book states that children of Nobles and Intendants receive better educations than Proles do. However, I got the feeling that this restriction applies to all Zhodani characters irrespective of caste and reflects the stratification of Zhodani society.
User avatar
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2968
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:14 am

Prime_Evil wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:In Alien book 4 on page 3, it is said that education is capped by the social standing level during CharGen. Does this apply to proles or non-proles?
The book states that children of Nobles and Intendants receive better educations than Proles do. However, I got the feeling that this restriction applies to all Zhodani characters irrespective of caste and reflects the stratification of Zhodani society.
The part about an EDU of 7- being raised to 8 sounds like an Intendant or Noble perk. But it's unclear to me if the EDU capping is a high-soc perk (all kids are garranteed education up to their soc level) or a prole perk (all kids can't learn more than their soc level).

A prole with EDU 10 and SOC 5 is either allowed, or it is not. Hmmm.....

Or maybe the statement to the effect that high-soc kids are better educated means the capping does not apply to them. And the raising EDU to 8 is a high-soc thing.
Condottiere
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8244
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:13 am

I'm not that familiar with the Zhodani, but aren't the Psionically-gifted gifted with a scholarship and punted kicking and screaming into the bourgeoisie?
User avatar
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2968
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:38 am

Condottiere wrote:I'm not that familiar with the Zhodani, but aren't the Psionically-gifted gifted with a scholarship and punted kicking and screaming into the bourgeoisie?
Yes. That rule is written clearly.
Condottiere
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8244
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:47 am

So it's possible that an Open University online course cd would be illegal? Or home schooling?
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3432
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:20 pm
Location: Arlington, TX USA

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:26 pm

Home-schooling would be completely against the Zhodani mind-set.

If you don't send your sweetlings off to government school, how will they learn everything they need to be a proper, productive citizen? After all, we all need the Nobles to help keep us on the right path and search out those deviants that could be lurking anywhere - they need help!

Besides, it is my duty as a good member of Zhodani society to keep the teachers employed.
My friends call me Richard.
You can call me Sir.
Condottiere
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8244
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:06 pm

I'm getting an antebellum Southern Dixie vibe.
GypsyComet
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2170
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:09 am

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby GypsyComet » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:12 am

There are several ways to interpret the Zhodani social structures, and the Consulate is large enough that they could all be correct despite efforts toward social homogenization. You will get Nobles and Intendants who run the spectrum of social responsibility, perception of highest priority societal issues (and where those rank compared to external issues), and level of "evil overlord" syndrome.
CTMTTNET4GTT20THMGTT5
It's all Traveller, so it's all Good.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:16 am

ShawnDriscoll wrote:A prole with EDU 10 and SOC 5 is either allowed, or it is not. Hmmm.....
I think the answer is not allowed, the book says " the effect is that initial Education cannot be higher than initial social standing", so in your example the prole will be limited to Edu 5. There is clearly provision for intendants and nobles to receive at least education 8, to ensure that the Zhodani elite have a reasonable education.

Of course, education achievement in most societies on Terra is closely linked to social class as well, more so than to intelligence in many instances! Perhaps it is the Imperials who are out of line.

Egil
Alles fur Gram - Official motto of Gram's 3rd Grenadier Regiment
Wein, Weib und Gesang - Unofficial motto of Gram's 3rd Grenadier Regiment
User avatar
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 2968
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:06 am

Egil Skallagrimsson wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:A prole with EDU 10 and SOC 5 is either allowed, or it is not. Hmmm.....
I think the answer is not allowed, the book says " the effect is that initial Education cannot be higher than initial social standing", so in your example the prole will be limited to Edu 5.
But the book doesn't say who it applies to.
Egil Skallagrimsson
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:29 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
Egil Skallagrimsson wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:A prole with EDU 10 and SOC 5 is either allowed, or it is not. Hmmm.....
I think the answer is not allowed, the book says " the effect is that initial Education cannot be higher than initial social standing", so in your example the prole will be limited to Edu 5.
But the book doesn't say who it applies to.
It is written in a vague way, but I think the meaning is as I suggested, also the same would apply to intendants and nobles, so someone of Soc 11 could not have an edu of 12. I tend to think that the "in this case" would have been better rendered as "as a consequence of this".

However, the real answer should come from the author, Don McKinney.

Could someone point him in the direction of this thread, and ask for the definitive answer?

Egil
Alles fur Gram - Official motto of Gram's 3rd Grenadier Regiment
Wein, Weib und Gesang - Unofficial motto of Gram's 3rd Grenadier Regiment
AndrewW
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4346
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby AndrewW » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:39 pm

Egil Skallagrimsson wrote:Could someone point him in the direction of this thread, and ask for the definitive answer?
Done.
User avatar
donm61873
Stoat
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:40 pm
Location: Saint Joseph, IL

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby donm61873 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:03 pm

In looking the paragraph over, I'd probably write it like this today:

"For all classes of Zhodani society, initial Education cannot be higher than initial Social Standing. If Education is higher than Social Standing initially, reduce Education to be equal to Social Standing. On the other hand, children of Nobles and Intendants receive better educations than Proles do. In this case, if Soc 10+ and Edu 7−, increase Education to 8."
Zhodani author and FFE minion
Egil Skallagrimsson
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 6:59 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:18 pm

donm61873 wrote:In looking the paragraph over, I'd probably write it like this today:

"For all classes of Zhodani society, initial Education cannot be higher than initial Social Standing. If Education is higher than Social Standing initially, reduce Education to be equal to Social Standing. On the other hand, children of Nobles and Intendants receive better educations than Proles do. In this case, if Soc 10+ and Edu 7−, increase Education to 8."
Thanks, Don :D
Alles fur Gram - Official motto of Gram's 3rd Grenadier Regiment
Wein, Weib und Gesang - Unofficial motto of Gram's 3rd Grenadier Regiment
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3432
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:20 pm
Location: Arlington, TX USA

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:15 pm

Also, remember that this only applies to Initial Education and Social Status, it is quite possible for any Zhodani to increase their education above their Social Standing during their terms of service or during game play.
My friends call me Richard.
You can call me Sir.
Condottiere
Warlord Mongoose
Posts: 8244
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby Condottiere » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:57 pm

Can the proletariat legally increase their educational level?
User avatar
donm61873
Stoat
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:40 pm
Location: Saint Joseph, IL

Re: Capped Zhodani education level

Postby donm61873 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:27 am

Condottiere wrote:Can the proletariat legally increase their educational level?
RTT answered this above correctly. The third paragraph of the "Characteristic Adjustment" section should be fairly clear: "These adjustments apply only at the start of character generation".

I'd change the following sentence to read, "They do not apply if a character’s Education, Social
Standing or Psionic Strength change due to the results of career service, aging or game play."

I hope that covers most of the questions that arise in this section... Note that not only is it possible for a Prole to receive additional Education in career service, but it's possible for a Prole to increase Psionic Strength above 9, in which case they gain Social Standing 10 and get sent off to Psionic Training as an Intendant (page 4).
Zhodani author and FFE minion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests