Solomani Confederation (Military)

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dragoner
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby dragoner » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:26 pm

Most people moved to America to make money; the whole "poor huddled masses" is 19th century romanticism. My family are immigrants, my father worked for the US military for 28 years, so not all are about money.
Rick
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rick » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:57 pm

Again, depends a great deal on the governments. Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg series has the colonies set up and initial growth by enthusiastic and skilled colonists, who then have successive waves of involuntary 'dregs of humanity' dumped on them, subsequently, the Navy (and later, Falkenberg's mercenaries) are used to sort the conflicts out. A similar situation occurs in Peter Hamilton's Night's Dawn series - what is seen as a brave new frontier quickly degenerates into a convenient dumping ground for Earth's unwanted masses.
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rick » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:02 pm

dragoner wrote:Most people moved to America to make money; the whole "poor huddled masses" is 19th century romanticism. My family are immigrants, my father worked for the US military for 28 years, so not all are about money.
But would they have undergone a long, risky voyage to a new country if they had the same opportunities at home? Unlikely. The skills that the immigrants had were not in demand in their home country or they would simply have stayed there, like so many skilled, employed people did.
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
dragoner
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby dragoner » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:17 pm

Rick wrote:
dragoner wrote:Most people moved to America to make money; the whole "poor huddled masses" is 19th century romanticism. My family are immigrants, my father worked for the US military for 28 years, so not all are about money.
But would they have undergone a long, risky voyage to a new country if they had the same opportunities at home? Unlikely. The skills that the immigrants had were not in demand in their home country or they would simply have stayed there, like so many skilled, employed people did.
It takes money to make money. Many of those with both skills and money at home, did come as well to be better off. Other factors, such as Europe constantly turfing itself, classism, ethnocentrism, etc. also brought many different groups; but most came to better their economic condition, wealthy or not.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Condottiere » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:23 am

Transtellarmigration

1. I think scifi covers most scenarios, from religious fanatics to transportation of undesirables.

2. One that bears thinking of regarding the more affluent demographics would be white flight, especially if they found somewhere fairly nice to settle down with rather strict immigration standards.

3. Once spaceflight becomes economic enough, the heavens are going to be full of American and Chinese corporate crafts, looking to make a killing, with the Indians, Russians and Japanese having a go as well.


Solomani Navy Composition

1. While I think that 7500 tons is the optimal size for an escort, I'm inclined to think that the set up of Traveller ship design would emphasize unisectional Adventure Class.

2. While the wording is heavy cruiser, I'm inclined to believe the intent would be hundred thousand tons and above for the other end of the scale, with capital ship spinal mounts.

3. The problem really is that capital ships need lighter units to create a buffer zone as well as being their eyes and ears.

4. That would lead to the construction of battle riders to fill those roles insystem, and their tenders.

5. Will those battle riders be only two thousand tons? At TL14, you can't really fit in a spinal mount in that hull.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rick » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:34 pm

2. One that bears thinking of regarding the more affluent demographics would be white flight, especially if they found somewhere fairly nice to settle down with rather strict immigration standards.
That would again depend not on the colony, but on the parent world. It is very unlikely that a colony could resist having whatever immigrants the parent world wanted to get rid of. If the parent world decided to send 30 million unskilled involuntary dregs, how could a colony actually stop this from happening?
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Condottiere » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:04 am

CoDominium's Sparta reflects both sides of that coin, though how much Drake may have diluted Pournelle's original vision is hard to judge (suffice to say, mine would be harsh).

Since the demographic would be affluent, they would probably maintain a lobby back on Earth, if not actual political power, to block unwanted forced emigration to their planet. The CoDominium does it to Sparta due to a combination of desperation, convenience, and possibly because one faction wants to destabilize Sparta.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Condottiere » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:01 pm

Spaceships: Runabouts and Shuttles

Mongoose mechanics point to an obvious tonnage of thirty tons; whereas canon seems to have solidified around the fifty ton cutter for the Imperium, lack thereof leaves what's the norm in the Confederation fairly wide open.

This assumption is based on the one-ton docking clamp capacity of thirty tons, without needing to go into the issue of that's it's probably too small, or that with two of them you could hook upto sixty tons (docking procedure would be longer and more complex) or that a five-tonner has a capacity of ninety tons.

It's really about efficiency, and in order for the Confederation to face up to the Imperium with it's plus one tech level superiority, it has to capitalize on this.

It's probable that a larger displaced smallcraft brings in a greater rate of return, but access and infrastructure costs should be less for a smaller shuttle. It's not that the Confederation doesn't have or won't use bigger craft, it's that they try to assign all possible missions and tasks to the thirty tonner.

The motto being to remain lean, mean and keen.

The modular skiff has already been designed, though while conveniently sized at twenty ton carrying capacity, might not be the optimum size in terms of possible performance.

Remember, this optimization is based on the prevailing game mechanics.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Condottiere » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:01 am

Aerospace Force

To distinguish the Confederation Navy from the planetary military, the local force could be labelled (planet name) Aerospace Force.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:35 pm

I have been considering using an integrated command structure for the Confederation forces, similar to what was hinted at in the TV show Babylon 5 for the Earth Force:

Officer Ranks:
O1: Ensign
O2: Lieutenant
O3: Major
O4: Commander
O5: Captain
O6: Commodore
O7: Brigidier
O8: Admiral
O9: General
O10: Marshall

All Confederation forces would use this integrated rank structure so there is no confusion about Captain (Army) and Captain (Navy) which are VERY different in rank and responsibility. It also removes all that Second Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander, Vice Admiral crap that I never liked.

There is also an enlisted Integrated rank structure:

E0: Recruit
E1: Private
E2: Technician
E3: Corporal
E4: Specialist
E5: Sergeant
E6: Senior Sergeant
E7: Sergeant Major
E8: Master Sergeant
E9: Master Chief

(I'm not as happy with the enlisted ranks - too many two-name sergeants).

Using different rank structures for different human societies is an easy way to show the Players that this is not America/Russia/Nazis in the future.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rick » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:42 pm

Couple of things that jump out - technician isn't really a rank in itself, it should really be an E:1 or 2 equivalent. I would have restructured the Other Ranks table more like this:

E0: Recruit

E1: Private
E2: Senior Private

E3: Lance Corporal
E4: Corporal
E5: Senior Corporal

E6: Sergeant
E7: Senior Sergeant
E8: Sergeant Major

E9/WO3: Master Sergeant/Technical Officer
WO2: Master Chief/Chief Technical Officer
WO1: Chief Warrant Officer

It becomes a little less American and a bit more inclusive of ranks from other nations.
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Condottiere » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:59 pm

Theoretically, the Navy and army support could be considered technical staff, as compared to the infantry cannon fodder.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:09 pm

Thanks for the input. I was hoping to come up with rank titles that didn't use duplicate names (Lance Corporal etc.), but this could work.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rick » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:26 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:Thanks for the input. I was hoping to come up with rank titles that didn't use duplicate names (Lance Corporal etc.), but this could work.
Unfortunately, most militaries have only 3 main NCO ranks and give each rank 2 or 3 grades where the name of the rank is duplicated.

E0: Recruit

E1: Jawan
E2: Kanan Jawan

E3: Naik
E4: Kanan Naik

E5: Daffadar
E6: Havildar
E7: Risaldar
E8/WO3: Jemadar

E9/WO2: Naib Subedar
WO1: Subedar

Ok. This is a mish-mash of Indian Army Infantry and Cavalry ranks with a bit of the old British Indian Army and a lot of artistic licence thrown in. I think Naib means Vice (as in Vice Admiral) and Kanan means Senior, but don't quote me on that please! It's about the closest I could get to having enough ranks so that repetition was minimal.
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby dragoner » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:47 pm

Condottiere
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Condottiere » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:05 am

Rank structures are a way of establishing hierarchy, but also seniority, responsibility and pay grades, which helps in retention.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby dragoner » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:25 pm

Condottiere wrote:Rank structures are a way of establishing hierarchy, but also seniority, responsibility and pay grades, which helps in retention.
Which also have a tendency to work against what they are supposed to do.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:30 pm

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I have always felt that just adopting the US or British rank structure was a cop out by a lot of writers when creating futuristic cultures.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Rick » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:53 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:Thanks for all the feedback guys! I have always felt that just adopting the US or British rank structure was a cop out by a lot of writers when creating futuristic cultures.
And it's what a lot of the readers will be familiar with. To me, from the UK, the US rank structure always looks a bit odd and I'm positive that the reverse is true; then if we looked at, say, the French structure, it would look much stranger (what's a "marechal des logis-chef"?). If you're creating one almost from scratch, it'd be tempting to go with "Leader of 10, Leader of 30, Leader of 100" and translate into a different language (basically that's what the Roman and Byzantine ranks are based on).
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Postby Condottiere » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:00 am

Ten pay grades is a sort of artificial limitation for an interstellar military.

As long as it fits into the organizational chart that you imagine for it, it should be alright.

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