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Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:59 pm
by Condottiere
Table of Organization


Seems legit for both sports and infantry squads.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:12 pm
by -Daniel-
Not sure I am following this chart. :|

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:04 pm
by Condottiere
There's the eternal bone of contention as to whether you should allow women to be deployed in frontline infantry units, if you can avoid it.

It's also going to be an issue on team sports, so someone progressive figured out that in physical activities, a man is worth sixty percent more than a woman, though the actual intent is to force integration, since with that formula a ten (wo)man team would be worth thirteen.

So it's an injoke.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:11 am
by -Daniel-
Condottiere wrote:There's the eternal bone of contention as to whether you should allow women to be deployed in frontline infantry units, if you can avoid it.

It's also going to be an issue on team sports, so someone progressive figured out that in physical activities, a man is worth sixty percent more than a woman, though the actual intent is to force integration, since with that formula a ten (wo)man team would be worth thirteen.

So it's an injoke.
Guess I missed the funny part of the chart. :roll:

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:44 am
by alex_greene
It doesn't seem that the person who came up with the chart, or its somewhat atavistic and erroneous conclusion, is at all progressive.

In the words of Inigo Montoya, "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

"Progressive" means "advocating social reform," and one ongoing social reform is a reform away from a pattern of inequality among the genders which has been going on for so long that people think it's natural, where in fact it is purely sociopolitical - a construct of an older and less morally-developed society, whose values are no longer useful and could be construed as, in fact, deleterious in a modern, better-informed world.

So, in that light, let me put on my mod voice.

Let's keep the issue of gender imbalance off this thread and off the forum, please. If it's an issue to some people that it isn't the 1970s any more, keep in mind that Mongoose Traveller makes no gender distinctions - and this is doubly true of the forum. Leave the bigotry outside and wipe your feet clean of it when you walk in the door here.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:37 am
by AnotherDilbert
alex_greene wrote:"Progressive" means "advocating social reform," ...
Perhaps even mods should stay clear of potentially inflammatory political subjects?

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:10 pm
by alex_greene
AnotherDilbert wrote:
alex_greene wrote:"Progressive" means "advocating social reform," ...
Perhaps even mods should stay clear of potentially inflammatory political subjects?
Only inasmuch as I'm going to remind all present to keep sexism and other similar attitudes out of the forums.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:01 pm
by -Daniel-
Well written Alex.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:12 pm
by Condottiere
Confederation Marines: Organization

I originally thought that each Marine battalion would have a mother regiment, but after quite a while trying to juggle exactly how the military and paramilitary institutions of the Confederation (inter)relate to one another, the concept for them can be discarded.

The mother unit for the Confederation Marines is the Corps.

There is only one Corps, and they are in it.

Divisions are administrative units, responsible for keeping track of their membership on a regional basis, the exception being the division based in Home, that is orientated towards internal security and defense of the Confederation capital system. Other than that, divisions are headquartered in Confederation naval depots.

Marines that provide security for naval basis are actually assigned there for the training and readiness legs of the deployment cycle, allowing them to burnish their skills in a more focussed way and reconnect with their family in particular, and society in general.

The largest field units are brigades, but they vary in size due to the number of units assigned to them, and if they're temporary bundlings of troops, generally have a senior colonel in overall command.

Battalions are usually assigned to the large Confederation cruisers, and reinforced variants to the battleships and supercarriers; battalions are split up to provide security for auxiliaries and minor combatants.

Since we have a Holy Trinity when it comes to career paths, I think that besides the canonical Star Marine, which I think we can rename Fleet Marine, there would be Cadre, and Special Aerospace Service.

Personally, I would have preferred Marine Commandos, or just Commandos, but the Solomani Army appears to have that. On the other hand, it does sort of emphasize the ethereal nature of the Marines, they'll either drop a tonne of bricks on you in a frontal assault, or they'll sneak in the backdoor; having accomplished their mission, they are then withdrawn, passing the baton onto a follow up force, whether it's the local constabulary, mercenaries or a Solomani Army newly stationed garrison.

Cadre would be more semi permanently assigned in small numbers, but more in a training, leadership and advisory role(s), but usually for missions that have some more direct impact on Solomani Navy operations.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:48 am
by Condottiere
Confederation Marines: Special Aerospace Service

I always thought SBS sounded silly, and a lot of their roles can be undertaken by their Solomani Army counterparts; they'd be primarily employed by the Solomani Navy in missions that affect their operations, or by request.

Principal roles are Surveillance Reconnaissance (SR), including information reporting and target acquisition; Offensive Action (OA), including direction of aerospace strikes, artillery and naval gunfire, designation for precision guided munitions, use of integral weapons and demolitions; and Support and Influence (SI), including interstellar training tasks. The SAS also provide immediate response Military Counter Terrorism (CT) and Spacetime Counter Terrorism (SCT) teams.

Considering hyperspace transition times, the key word would be immediacy.

And apparently, kill teams, and supposedly extraction and extraordinary renditions, though more likely capable of, but probably performed by Solomani Army Special Forces.

Their equipment would be biased towards highly stealthed, which means if they do drag along battledress, it would be light weight and as undetectable as possible.

By tradition, anyone in the Solomani military can volunteer, but a rigorous weeding out process tends to ensure that only the best are selected.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:42 pm
by Condottiere
Confederation Marines: Cadre

Cadre are long service Marine veterans, that not only have the capability to inspire and pass along skills to each new intake of Marines, but can act as leaders, liaisons and advisers to paramilitary groups.

This makes them not only ideal to form the command backbone of military forces not in the direct chain of command of the Solomani Navy, but also favoured to be assigned to deep space exploratory missions, where their liaison and negotiating skills can be used in contacting foreign and alien cultures, and if things go south, organizing and leading the non-Marine starship crew in an armed confrontation.

This makes a member of the Cadre an attractive choice to be assigned as military attache or be recruited to spy on opposing militaries, or even allied ones, where their ability to assess men, equipment and organizations will give the Solomani general staffs and intelligence agencies a valuable insight in their capabilities, preparedness and intent.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:50 am
by Condottiere
Confederation Marines: Support

The Solomani Confederation Marine Corps over emphasizes on frontline light infantry, inasmuch as heavily armed battle dressed Marines can be described as light infantry.

Support and technical service personnel are seconded from the Navy, insofar as such skills and roles are trained at the Naval academies, such as Medical, Communications, Mechanics, Electronics, etcetera.

Aerospace transport is provided by the Navy, and their preference is for armed assault shuttles in most cases, or gigs, when stealth isn't an issue.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:48 pm
by Condottiere
Solomani Confederation Army: Jump Troops

Supposedly the most elite regular light infantry troops of the Confederation, apparently the equivalent in fierceness as the Imperium Marines, or at least as awe inspiring. Except without the artillery and the armour. They probably jealously hang on to the unit names of famous paratroop units from Terran history, having rebuilt their units after being mostly wiped out during the Battle of Terra.

Are they actually better than the Confederation Marines? Maybe they have to be, because the Marines don't jump, they come down with heavily armoured assault shuttles.

The Navy probably uses heavily stealthed transports to deliver the Jump Troops to their drop zones, since the Jump Troops will be at their most vulnerable during their drop; whereas with the Marines the assumption will be that the enemy knows they're coming, so their assaults shuttles will be heavily armoured and as fast as possible.

Considering their elite status, there probably aren't more than a division of Jump Troops per subsector.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:36 pm
by Condottiere
Solomani Confederation Army: Lift Infantry

Not a term I'd use, but it's canonical and descriptive enough.

The majority of Solomani Army combat units, which in most cases would be equipped at technological level twelve, with combat armour and gauss rifle, with designated assault units issued technological level thirteen battle dress with PGMP Thirteens. There's probably no clean dividing line, as more advanced weapons and equipment trickles down to more favoured units.

To contrast with the Marine Corps system, I would say that Lift Infantry are organized around an administrative mother regiment that recruits from a specific geographical region, and deploys in battalions to field brigades.

While this is influenced to some extent to the Forty Kay Imperial Guard, the differences between regiments are superficial though a regional character or tradition might be emphasized, because the need to simplify logistics and ensure easy integration would ensure that equipment, training and doctrine are homogeneous. Really hostile environments deployments would be assigned to units with specialized training and equipment.

To compensate when encountering more militaries with better protected troops, there's a higher proportion of heavy weapons that can crack advanced armour.

While I use the term lift infantry, all units would be completely equipped with grav armoured personnel carriers and/or infantry fighting vehicles.

Lift infantry find themselves stationed in garrisons or deployed forward to stiffen Home Guard militaries, their extensive vehicle complement makes them unsuitable for rapid deployment, a role more suited to the Confederation Marines or jump troops.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:45 am
by Condottiere
Solomani Confederation Army: Cavalry

Solomani tradition has the cavalry coming to the rescue of far flung settler (worlds); technically, it would be the Navy.

Lift infantry is the equivalent of cavalry, since grav armoured personnel carriers will swiftly bring the troops to where the action is, and allow them to dismount.

There is very little point in transporting military units across interstellar distances, without organic transportation; jump troops doctrinally travel as light as possible, so tend to forego heavily armoured gravitic vehicles that take up space, while Marines ride into battle onboard assault shuttles.

Cavalry also has the role of forward reconnaissance, but this is now likely taken by drones, who are more likely to remain unobserved on the battlefield, and if not, expendable.

Lift infantry is air cavalry, more than air mobile since you could expect the armoured personnel carriers to have some survivable capability, and not be forced to dismount the troops at the edge of the battlezone.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:51 pm
by Condottiere
Solomani Confederation Army: Close Air Support

Canon says that faster gravitational drives eventually replace dedicated warplanes in all their roles, but starting off with the helicopter, and tilt rotors.

There's always been some controversy that the Aerospace component doesn't really properly support troops closely, preferring to emphasize on other more glamourous roles. Since the Navy is responsible for strategic bombing and aerospace superiority, any aerospace component the Army has can concentrate on transportation, reconnaissance and close support.

That doesn't mean that Navy light fighters can't be given a close support mission, it's more that there's a far more clear delineation of responsibility; Army units can linger in the neighbourhood, whereas the Navy craft tend to come in fast and then leave.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:37 pm
by Condottiere
Solomani Confederation Navy: Pocket Carrier

This seems specific to the Confederation Navy pre bellum, as one would be assigned for every two major combat units or battlecruisers, or paired with an assault carrier.

A pocket carrier is not an escort carrier, it is a warship that has forty or fifty fighters, meant to be the add on to major Confederation naval formations whose ships were probably deliberately designed without facilities for a heavy fighter contingent, so the pocket carriers would need to have the same strategic and tactical movement capabilities of the fleet.

This leaves around half the volume available for the aerospace wing, which coincidentally weighs individually in at thirty tonnes, close enough to steroid them to thirty five.

A two thousand tonne hangar seems like a pretty good idea, combined with a launch tube and a recovery deck, which would allow you to squeeze in fifty one Solomani medium fighter equivalents.

I suspect if we indulged in some retconning using Mongoose Second, we could probably squeeze in two hangar equivalents.

I doubt that pocket carriers are necessary anymore, their roles being taken over by escort carriers constructed to commercial standards, while older (existing) major combatants are rebuilt to accommodate subsidiary combat craft, whereas new ones are large enough to house entire wings.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:56 pm
by Condottiere
Solomani Confederation Navy: Fleet Squadron

How A Fleet Squadron normally comprises two battlecruisers, one heavy or strike Cruiser, one pocket carrier or light cruiser and six destroyers of varying types. The support ships will usually comprise two fleet tankers, two fleet tenders, six frigates, two-three fleet couriers and one-two fleet scouts. A typical FleetRon will have a total of sixteen fighting ships and eight support ships.
Evolves to the equivalent of the Imperial BatRon. Following Solomani Rim War experience those in the marches are built around battleships plus a screen of light escorts intended mainly for scouting. Tanker and courier units are attached. A typical squadron has six battleships, twelve escorts, two tankers, two tenders and six fleet couriers. Solomani escorts are generally smaller than their Imperial equivalents and will rarely play a significant role in the battle line.

The elite squadrons had four capital ships, probably a reflection of the roles they were expected to play, and the opposition they were likely to encounter.

By the time we get to the present day, FleetRons had homogenized to six battleships, likely fast dreadnoughts; after this point I'd deviate.

The FleetRon divides into three subunits, or divisions of two battleships each; having only two of each, whether tankers or tenders, only would allow two subunits of three battleships, which is perfectly viable, except it would be overkill if they corner an Imperium Navy battleship, and outnumbered, if they run up against a full strength battle squadron. That's why I'd adjust it to three subunits, they can reunite if they have a fairly good idea where that Imperium battle squadron is hanging out.

There are no cruiser squadrons in the current Confederation order of battle, though that doesn't mean there are no remaining cruisers still in commission, and those that can keep up with the FleetRons, I'd role as command cruisers, that would coordinate the task force, and stay out of the line of battle.

Confederation battleships don't really need escort vessels, they each have an organic aerospace wing that can carry out advanced reconnaissance, or be the designated mouse to trigger any trap the task group could be accelerating into. The tankers and the tenders would need one or two each, and it would be a good idea to assign them to the command cruiser as well; optimistically, sixteen escort vessels.

I like to think the Confederation is more networked, so one fleet courier per battleship, and two per command cruiser.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:51 am
by Condottiere
Solomani Confederation Navy: Patrol Squadron

The most common Confederation unit to be encountered, designed for long range antipiracy, customs and anti-privateer patrols mainly in friendly territory and on the frontiers. In wartime however, they can be pressed into service in the scouting, patrolling and long-range commerce raiding roles in enemy territory. PatRons will usually be allocated a subsector and spread their forces out over that area of space into flights of two-three patrol cruisers. Corvettes are sometimes used in the patrol role but lack the range of dedicated patrol cruisers. A typical PatRon comprises five flights, each with one heavy patrol cruiser and two light patrol cruisers or corvettes. Sometimes these units operate alone on patrol. One of the heavy patrol cruisers will be the Squadron command ship. A PatRon is more an administrative and support unit than a tactical fighting unit. Real tactical control in a PatRon is exercised by the Flight Commanders. Support ships will usually comprise one-two fleet couriers. Further logistics support is obtained from Naval Bases in the subsector.

Evolved into primarily administrative units broken up into single or paired-vessels rather than operating as tasks forces. Their main duties are showing the flag, monitoring border systems, peacekeeping in low-population systems and piracy suppression, especially in low-population systems that cannot afford a proper Navy Home Guard. In time of war they are typically used for scouting and diversionary missions. PatRons usually consist of about twenty small combat ships, typically a mix of two hundred tonne close escorts and thousand tonne patrol cruisers.

Being administrative units, I rather doubt the squadron commander will be taking up any long term residence in a rather cramped smallish warship, but will set up shop in a space station with rather decent facilities and likely the regional communications hub.

If they're still described as flights, all patrol ships will be paired up; the interesting question, now that Mongoose Second design rules are in effect, is what the Confederation would define as suitable patrol vessels, which would also be the same as the escort vessels found in Fleet Squadrons, that two hundred tonnes is too small, especially considering the cruiser gap.

Let's clarify that; there's no mention of any cruiser squadron, administrative or otherwise, post bellum, except that only limited numbers are in commission, and funds tend to be diverted to building more battleships and black budget cruiser sized ships.

At the lower end, the difference is made up with patrol ships of between eight to twenty hundred tonnes.

In theory, fleet escorts should be around five kay tonnes, and patrol cruisers one kay; I think I'll do a littoral combat ship convergence and make it two thousand and one tonnes, which simplifies construction and deployment.

That would make a Confederation frigate rather intimidating in most normal encounters, and for the auxiliary ships, their real defence would be the fighter screens, not really the fleet escorts.

Re: Solomani Confederation (Military)

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:44 pm
by Condottiere
Solomani Confederation Navy: Assault Squadron

Tasked for planetary assaults, AssaultRons will usually be centered around one troop carrier, one heavy or strike cruiser, one pocket carrier, one light cruiser and five destroyers. The support ships will usually comprise one fleet tanker, one fleet tender, four frigates, two-three fleet couriers and one-two fleet scouts. A typical AssaultRon will have a total of thirteen fighting ships and six support ships, plus the squadrons of gunships carried by the troop carrier for planetary assault operations. The overwhelming percentage of destroyers and frigates will be the missile variants, designed to support a planetary bombardment.

Evolves to a single large or two smaller assault transports, a dozen escort ships, four fleet couriers, four commando transports, a fleet tanker and a fleet tender. The assault transports carry numerous smaller craft. Unlike Imperial equivalents, AssaultRons are associated with Solomani Army divisions rather than Marines. Commando transports are eight to twelve hundred tonne vessels similar in role to the Broadsword-class of mercenary cruiser used as commando carriers for special operations.

We can assume that a large assault transport should be at least a hundred thousand tonnes, and that the described smaller ones would be at least twenty five thousand tonnes plus each.

Let's just drop the smaller troop carriers.

If I were an Imperium Navy intelligence analyst, I'd want to know the precise location of each large assault transport, since if they started to gather in staging areas near the border, you'd know that the Confederation was getting ready for the coming War of Salvation, because they'd be the vital cog in liberating key planets.

One problem is the supposed ratio of one assault transport per thirty six battleships; even in an island hopping campaign, that's not going to be enough.

If an assault transport is meant to support a complete Confederation Army division, that makes it a strategic target; it's going to have at least a division of battlecruisers or battleships escorting it, whether or not they'll be also acting as a planetary bombardment force. Still, a significant proportion of the assault transport volume should be devoted to extensive defences, which is one issue I have with the Zhukov class, which have a dispersed configuration.

The fleet tanker and tender will likely be tightly grouped with the assault transport, allowing the escort ships to pool around them, with maybe one or two detached to accompany commando carriers for very important missions, though you'd have to assume that commando carriers would want to attract as little attention as possible, and be able to look after themselves.

What's the typical size of a commando party? I'm going to assume the idea is to make a stealthy infiltration, and if not a stealthy exfiltration, at least a hasty exit. Never thought the Broadswords were suitable for either.

Another interesting aspect is the size of a Confederation Army division.