Jump Arrival Point

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Wil Mireu
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:43 am

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Wil Mireu » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:00 am

Condottiere wrote:According to a PBS show I'm just watching, you have asteroids between the Earth and the Sun; hiding behind one of those should allow some extra stealthiness, though which ships would pass by there except passenger shuttles and possible in system freighters.
Or, y'know, you could just land on the darn thing. I'm not really sure what the obsession is with "hiding behind asteroids" - there's plenty of ways to 'disappear' in space - land on a moon, park in a cave, hide in a jovian atmosphere, land on a planet that nobody would think of looking for anyone on, lurk in the kuiper belt, hang out in deep space... etc
Condottiere
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7319
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Condottiere » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:09 am

I put it down to the natural shy and retiring nature of pirates and raiders.

Besides, you know, cave wyrms.
rust
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 5941
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:17 pm
Location: Sonthofen / Germany

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby rust » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:14 am

Wil Mireu wrote: I'm not really sure what the obsession is with "hiding behind asteroids" ...
It is a classical space opera trope that has been used over and over
again in Golden Age science fiction. The bad guy in a Western wears
a black hat, the space pirate hides behind an asteroid ... :lol:
Solomani666
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 782
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Solomani666 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:00 am

Gas giant refueling
alex_greene
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3786
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:29 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby alex_greene » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:08 am

"Hey, guys, sensors have detected that pirate ship we've been chasing."

"Where?"

"He's been hiding in that gas giant."

"Holy Klono, where did that gas giant come from?"
Board moderator. Product List [DriveThruRPG]: Blood Path [Legend]; Cosmopolite [Traveller]; Castrobancla [Traveller]
leopard
Weasel
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:26 pm
Location: Wolverton, Milton Keynes

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby leopard » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:52 pm

Used to work with the idea that the total time in jump space is unknown when you jump, but can be determined while you are in jump space, though its not certain but you can update the estimate as you get closer to emergence.

Think of a count down, starting rounded to say +/- 10 hours, getting down to the second perhaps ten minutes before you emerge.

Of course you only find out exactly where you emerge when you look around, you will have a rough idea as you know where you aimed for, suggest most worlds will have the 100D area for jumping out and arrivals around say 110D, so they can avoid the outgoing craft.

Busy worlds will probably have various traffic zones, smaller craft using some zones, bulk carriers another, warships yet another.


In system flight is probably rare in many systems, but any system with more than one populated world is likely to have such as a routine matter, and since the orbits of the worlds are known it should be possible to get the jump on such craft - if you know the flight plans, and there is a role for PCs if ever there was one.
Rick
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:13 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Rick » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:51 am

Just as a bit of light relief and for an idiots guide to control lanes, chase down Dave Gunson's 'What goes up might come down'. Your space traffic control system might never be the same!

Seriously though, it makes sense for all of a systems traffic to come through smaller controlled areas, especially closer in to a planet - if nothing else, you won't have to replace quite so many dented satellites that way!
"Understanding is a 3-edged sword" bit like a toblerone, really.
coldwar
Stoat
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:19 pm

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby coldwar » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:10 pm

Not sure if this has been mentioned. Only read a couple posts so far.

But I think the most effective way to pirate is to plant some pirates on the ship. It leaves the planet, jumps. The planted pirates get a week to plant to do some mischief to some of the ships systems they can access. Ship jumps in at the jump point, where the pirate ship is awaiting them.

If planted as passengers, the pirates may have a harder time. Though if the crew lacks security this may not be a problem.
If planted as working passage, depending on what they are doing they may have access to critical systems. Paranoid merchants may make the agents life hell though.
If planted as working crew (falsely) same as working passage. Though the ships own crew is very likely undermanned and security may be already lacking. Hence why they hired someone to fill a gap. Just so happens the gap filling npc they thought was safe is a pirate leading them in to a trap.

With the last one, if it is astrogator, then the could end up going to a completely different system then intended.
But these would only work on PC's if the players wasn't paranoid about hijackings and.or planted agents already. And never take a passenger or a npc skill filler.
Burocrate
Stoat
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:35 pm

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Burocrate » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:41 pm

OOC comment: "Oh, so that's how it works in your Universe."

IC comment: "My Purser PC will add Fast Drug to all non-vetted passengers and working passage NPCs from now on." :lol:
Travellers: they'll break you ship and then ruin your best laid plans.
alex_greene
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3786
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:29 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby alex_greene » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:44 pm

Unless you're running the Pirates of Drinax, though, make piracy less common than you think. Traveller should be about the characters having fun things to do, rather than having fun things done to them.
Board moderator. Product List [DriveThruRPG]: Blood Path [Legend]; Cosmopolite [Traveller]; Castrobancla [Traveller]
Condottiere
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7319
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Condottiere » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:00 pm

Piracy within Imperium space shouldn't be viable, unless starships are so plentiful, that you can take the hijacked ship to a chop shop.

Even if the movable goods are only taken, the window of opportunity closes as the Navy sends more patrol ships to the effected area.
dragoner
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Indiana, US

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby dragoner » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:41 pm

Unless of course the Imperium (noble, megacorp, navy officer, etc.) is colluding with the pirates. There is a good JTAS article, years ago, but still relevant, about how piracy exists in the Marches and which worlds the pirates would operate out of.
Somebody
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1359
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Somebody » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:34 am

Ahh, the pirat debate is rising it's head :)

Basically for piracy you need to find the IYTU answers to some questions:

1) Where is the Imperial Navy?

2) Do trade ships use "empty systems" as part of their routes

3) Where do you play and what are the relations between systems

4) The "lens" used on the 3I

5) Restrictions on ships / bureaucracy
======

1) If the navy is mostly "waiting for the <evil of the day> in it's depot systems with only small escort ships (<= 5000dt, mostly <= 1000dt) AND those mostly on picket duty agains <EotD> than there are a lot less patrol vehicles around and those are likely working in 2-6 ship groups (so one survives the inital <EotD> attack).

2) If uninhabitat systems with little/no infrastructure are used than wilderness refueling is more common and SDBs will be rare/non existent. This in turn will enhance a pirats "strike window" since he has both travell times AND a target that will be severly blinded/restricted when it comes out of refuelling. Combine with "waiting navy" and the chance to encounter a patrol vessel while "in the act" is reduced even more

3) If you play in a setting like QLIs old "Gateway" where the 3I is only "First among equals" rather than "800pf gorilla" or "Cold War" than there are more markets for fencing the goods and less well patrolled borders (less fleet elements to start with, less war chances as well). Having a policy next door that is "unfriendly-neutral" to the 3I AND big enough to require a battlefleet to clean out is a policy that will likely be left alone AND offer a save haven for resonably discreet pirats. Otoh a pirat that is too open about where he sells the loot might be hunted down in a "show of intra-state anti piracy action" to keep the 3I further at bay

4) Mega/TNE used a "rotten in the core/giant on clay feet" lens on the 3I. GT and MgT use a "perfect 3I" lens. If you use the "rotten" lens than there is a lot of corruption like "escort ships that only exist in the books" or "deployments billed but not done", officers promoted due to "being of the right blood" (The Sharpe novells/films have some beautiful ideas for those), graft on the lower levels etc. All stuff that reduces the readiness of the patrols (Most nobles will be smart enough to keep the big ships in case the Sollies/Zhos come). The bureaucracy and navy will favour the big lines (That have their own escort ships like iirc Tukera and Oberlindes) because they "donate to the pension fund" and "offer good positions to former officers"

5) GT has a "effective bureaucracy" making it difficult to hide the pirat activity / get a pirat craft into position. Drop that, maybe add some corruption to Starport Authority etc. and the chances for SMART pirats get bigger. At the same time have some good old "we want to better our fellow humans" laws passed restricting ships weapons to "systems for self defence" and "requiring established needs" (Both as means to "restrict the free flow of tools for piracy") and soon Trader Joe carries a sandcaster and a prayer book. Again the big companies (With Noble owners etc) WILL get the permits for a nice laser or five easily.
dragoner
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Indiana, US

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby dragoner » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:45 pm

If GT is portraying the 3I as foo foo bunny in velvetine pantaloons then that is a major deviation from the original which had the Gash (A1), a floating prison hulk where prisoners were held incognito; and (A2) Imperial Naval troops kidnapping chirper children for experimentation and vivisection. These are just the first two adventures, not to mention bribery skill, the fact that corsairs do exist as a ship type, etc. do give a glimpse of an imperfect Imperium. It also gives good reason for why it all falls apart in the way it does. Though I have heard people comparing the Imperium to 2nd century Rome, but honestly, I would not go that far; Gibbon called Rome the greatest woe to humanity that ever existed and he was a Romanophile.
Somebody
Greater Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 1359
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Somebody » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:23 pm

GT had such beautiful things as "unbribable imperial Administration" and "99+ percent of the nobles are hard working goody two shoes" not to mention a merrit based fleet/marines etc.
dragoner
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Indiana, US

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby dragoner » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:49 pm

Somebody wrote:GT had such beautiful things as "unbribable imperial Administration" and "99+ percent of the nobles are hard working goody two shoes" not to mention a merrit based fleet/marines etc.
Which in that case, it is understandable that piracy would be rare; though looking through Hard Times or Survival Margin, even the Navy and Marines look rather awful, with things like the "Black War".
Condottiere
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7319
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Condottiere » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:50 pm

Subsector fleets my differ widely in quality, depending on the character of the sector administration and the resources available to them. An efficient Admiralty, without undue distractions, will eventually crack down on obvious incompetence.
High Orbit Drifter
Stoat
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:51 am

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby High Orbit Drifter » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:16 pm

Somebody wrote:GT had such beautiful things as "unbribable imperial Administration" and "99+ percent of the nobles are hard working goody two shoes" not to mention a merrit based fleet/marines etc.
I'm familiar with GT and don't recall seeing either of these quotes. It does continue the trend of Imperium as good guy, to an extent, when relating the Imperium to groups like the Ine Givar, for example. But GT Nobles specifically has sections on bribery, and on the question of Good Imperium vs Evil Imperium. It notes the "official" TU is neutral on "the Imperium's moral value".

To get back on topic that whole thing about arriving early/late at your jump destination due to that pesky 10% variation was answered by Mr. Miller in his article on Jumpspace. Ships natually percipitate out of jumpspace within 3000 kilometers of its target, but errors of various sorts, as well as jump length can increase that by a factor of ten.

Its not clear if that "factor of ten" is total or cumulative, but it the exit is based on that 3000 kilometers of the target, modified from that point, not on time pre-/post- projected jump emergence.

I don't know if T5 has added, modified or scrapped this explaination.

As to piracy, it exits since it is mentioned in most if not all editions of Traveller. How or why it works is another question.
Izirk bagraanak nidushaa! transliteration: That hound dog won't hunt.
dragoner
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Indiana, US

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby dragoner » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:19 am

Condottiere wrote: An efficient Admiralty, without undue distractions, will eventually crack down on obvious incompetence.
Or overthrow the Imperium, as history shows.
Condottiere
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 7319
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Re: Jump Arrival Point

Postby Condottiere » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:31 pm

Piracy would probably more closely resemble Fast and Furious, or Mission Impossible.

Another take could be Black Sails, but that may be more suitable for the Vargr.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests