Ship Design Philosophy

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Sigtrygg
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:24 pm

Why not build an artificial planetoid hull? Real planetoids of the volume needed to make ships are very very rarely more than a loose conglomerate of dust and 'ice'.
Condottiere
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:44 pm

Pour the molten nickel iron into a mold.

Would need a cost quotation on that.
Sigtrygg
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Sigtrygg » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:01 pm

Trivial smelting costs considering cheap fusion power, negligable if you use solar powered heaters, all you need it time.
Condottiere
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:11 pm

Shake and bake.

It's obvious but without some form of costing, hard to introduce.

Proportions would be the same, you still need to make the hull twenty percent of volume.
baithammer
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby baithammer » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:18 am

Sigtrygg wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:24 pm
Why not build an artificial planetoid hull? Real planetoids of the volume needed to make ships are very very rarely more than a loose conglomerate of dust and 'ice'.
You'd be better off making a conventional hull than an artificial one as the cost reduction is the fact that the planetoid already provides the external portion of the hull.

Not to mention a fair number of planetoid objects are a more solid base than ice or dust balls.

One of the best uses of a planetoid is a siege platform, where you place a refinery to smelt iron content with a factory to produce ammunition and install a spinal railgun.

Also useful for creating low cost bases.
Sigtrygg
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Sigtrygg » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:45 am

You missed my points.
1.In the real world you find very few solid lumps of nickel/iron large enough to hollow out to make ships
2.You can easily smelt a 1000t ball of solid nickel/iron to have your artificial planetoid that you then hollow out.

I stick with the original HG/TCS rules with regards to planetoid and buffered planetoid hulls free armour.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby baithammer » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:05 am

1.In the real world you find very few solid lumps of nickel/iron large enough to hollow out to make ships
You don't want solid nickle/iron lumps, you want an easily tunneled body with a sufficiently stable surface.
2.You can easily smelt a 1000t ball of solid nickel/iron to have your artificial planetoid that you then hollow out.
Or smelt into smaller subcomponents of a standard hull for a much faster and effective construction.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:24 pm

The classic blueprints would be that of an underground dungeon complex.

A twenty percent volumed shell sounds like a tremendous structural integrity to begin with, without needing internal reinforcement.

God knows how they manage to install the artificial gravity plating, and depending how it works, inertial compensators at those prices, which presumably include dentistry.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:14 pm

Floors are by default three metres high, and eleven centimetres, would might be the thickness of the hull.

If gravitational fields can extend through tens of metres, you could be using planks as floors.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:13 am

Spaceships: Weaponry, Barbetted Torpedoes and Fixed Mounts

Each torpedo barbette holds three torpedoes (those on firmpoints hold two torpedoes).

Apparently, you can squeeze two torpedo launchers within a tonne of volume.

Going by turret conversions, you could in theory do that for the full three launchers in one and a half tonnes, though it could be less.

You should account for the space immediately behind the launchers, where the reloads would be manoeuvred to, before being shoved into the (then) empty tubes, though in theory those spaces could be already occupied, and the crew gangway gets used for the schoopsing around if the required warhead isn't the immediate reload.

Presumably, the torpedo tubes could also be used as an ad hoc airlock.

For smallcraft, I'd guess you'd be limited to two tubes.

In theory, you could seal them off, and you get a vertical launch system, which means any reloading has to be done through the muzzle, and may or may not require more specialized equipment.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:30 am

Spaceships: Weaponry, Barbetted Missiles and Fixed Mounts

Using the barbetted torpedoes as a template, that means that you can take the barbetted missile launchers and have them fixed.

Image

You can probably squeeze in six to eight missile launchers into one tonne, depending on whether quadruple turrets are legitimate. Luckily, barbettes have only five, so that's not an issue, whether for large or small craft; issue seems to be have many reloads are accessible before the loading mechanism needs a refill, whether twenty or three, respectively.

You could seal them, and have five vertical launchers, kinda short of the twelve you used to have in Trillion Credit Squadron.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:13 am

Spaceships: Weaponry, Barbetted Torpedoes and Fixed Mounts

Drones are five to the tonne.

Ye default torpedo volume is three to the tonne.

Since presumably deep space drones would resemble torpedoes, dispensing them through the torpedo tubes seems eminently practical, especially if you can internally swap out the reloads.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:45 pm

Spaceships: Smallcraft Bridges and Cockpits

A double cockpit, two times one and a half tonnes, could substitute for a six tonne bridge.

For a ten tonne bridge, perhaps a double dual cockpit at five tonnes.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby baithammer » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:04 am

Condottiere wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:13 am
Spaceships: Weaponry, Barbetted Torpedoes and Fixed Mounts

Each torpedo barbette holds three torpedoes (those on firmpoints hold two torpedoes).

Apparently, you can squeeze two torpedo launchers within a tonne of volume.

Going by turret conversions, you could in theory do that for the full three launchers in one and a half tonnes, though it could be less.

You should account for the space immediately behind the launchers, where the reloads would be manoeuvred to, before being shoved into the (then) empty tubes, though in theory those spaces could be already occupied, and the crew gangway gets used for the schoopsing around if the required warhead isn't the immediate reload.

Presumably, the torpedo tubes could also be used as an ad hoc airlock.

For smallcraft, I'd guess you'd be limited to two tubes.

In theory, you could seal them off, and you get a vertical launch system, which means any reloading has to be done through the muzzle, and may or may not require more specialized equipment.
2nd Edition MGT only allows 1 barbette for every 2 firmpoints.

And given the power cost, it would most likely be done with an autoloader.

Should take the mounting rules from Vehicles and use the High Guard style for stats. ( And get rid of the 0 dt fixed weapons.)
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:41 pm

It's a balancing act, since I'd have to agree that you don't want smallcraft carrying three torpedo tubes, if you had one per firmpoint. Though to be clear, that should be a possibility.

Image

An autoloader would take less space.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:01 pm

Spaceships: Dropship

A dropship is a fictional transport vehicle featured frequently in science fiction, in particular military science fiction and space opera genres. It is used to deliver troops (or "space marines") and equipment onto a planetary surface. Notable examples of dropships include the "Retrieval Boats" from Robert A. Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers and the UD4L Cheyenne from the 1986 film Aliens.

Features[edit]
Dropships typically possess a short range and are designed only to work in conjunction with a larger orbiting mothership or vessel that is ill-suited to land on the surface. Dropships are usually capable of both atmospheric and space flight (or, in some examples, underwater travel), differing from craft only capable of flight in one of those mediums. The roles of Dropships are generally military in nature, including landing troops or equipment on a planet. Dropships featured tend to be portrayed as heavily armed and armoured, providing protection for troops from surface fire, similar to helicopters currently employed by military forces.
Differing depictions of dropships either tend toward strictly functional to those more artistic or organic in operation. Often Dropships are designed using current technology or principles in mind, such as Scramjet engines, VTOL and Lifting Bodies. The UD4L Cheyenne from the 1986 film Aliens was designed with both the AH-1 Cobra attack helicopter and the F-4 Phantom fighter jet as a basis.[1] Commonly space-flight principles including delta-V, orbital insertion and aerobraking are used to describe the flight-characteristics of Dropships.
Dropships are shown to serve a similar role to modern day utility/transport aircraft, typically helicopters or tiltrotor aircraft. Vehicles such as the UH-60 Blackhawk or the MV-22 Osprey, also capable of deploying men and equipment whilst maintaining fire support. While achieving the same goal delivering troops and material to landing zones, Military Gliders are only single use and lack arms and armor. Currently no real-world examples of Dropships exist, although research into their application has and continues to be explored by military forces around the world (see Militarisation of space).
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby baithammer » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:43 pm

A lot of the Dropships depicted would be more aptly described as shuttles ( UD4L Cheyenne for example.) as they are able to range a fair degree on the surface and tend to carry a relatively small payload where as a dropship tends to more oriented to large cargo over a more limited range. ( Possibly using main drives only for touchdown or return to orbit.)
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:09 am

Yeah, but by technological level nine we have for all intents and purposes limitless endurance and a gravitational based drive.

And they only get better.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby baithammer » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:30 am

There is still a role for the drop ship, as the improvements in propulsion and energy allow an even greater cargo payload with a thrust 1-3 m-drive.

Not to mention using high survivability capsules from orbit is possible for infantry.
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Re: Ship Design Philosophy

Postby Condottiere » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:29 pm

Those guys are paratroopers.

You could also have the shuttles do a flyby and have the equivalent of the troops abseiling down, like jumping off with jet packs or grav belts.

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