AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Egil Skallagrimsson
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:23 pm

OneTrikPony wrote: Do I understand correctly?
Is this game really that deadly?
.
No. Remember that a completely average character, 777777, has to receive 21 points of damage before killed by a single shot, then note the 3d6 dam caused by a semiautomatic rifle. Even if (1 in 216 chance) an 18 is rolled, the firer will still need an effect of +3 to kill the target outright. The Traveller PC has much better chance of surviving a rifle bullet hit than a real person would.

And also yes, compared to most RPGs trav combat is deadly, it is part of the gritty vibe of the game. The "solutions" for the players (hide, spot the enemy first, use cover, bring better weapons along, buy the best armour you can, don't be afraid to retreat (manourve tactically to the rear)) have all been suggested, and are very true. If the players stand around in the open, goodnight Vienna.

Merc campaigns can work, but expect a high body count on both sides, with the players having more than one character, and including a large number of friendly NPCs (the rest of the platoon).

Egil
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Egil Skallagrimsson
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:27 pm

locarno24 wrote:
Can People give me some hints about tactics for keeping PC's alive if things get violent? I'd like to run a merc campaign.
Don't fight fair.

This is not Dungeons & Dragons. It's not even Dark Heresy. The difference in combat potential between a player character and a generic mook trooper is pretty much nothing aside from any differences in equipment.

Players need to learn to use cover. Don't get caught in the open, and make a point of dodgeing when attacked.

Anyone who says 'oh I can take it' because they're the toughest player in the party will swiftly realise they can't. Automatic weapons firing in burst mode will put down players, fast. There are no 'tanks' unless someone actually brings a tank. Most players in a merc campaign should pack themselves an ACR or Gauss rifle.

The most important skills are recon (to see the other guy before they see you), stealth (same reason) and gun combat.

Autofire is great for attracting people's attention, and causing a few hits, whilst aimed bursts are for putting people down dead.
Exactly! Autofire has its uses, especially from a PGMP, but with ACRs and gauss rifles bursts are usually much more effective, in particular if your slug rifle skill is 2 or greater.

Egil
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby dragoner » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:08 pm

Egil Skallagrimsson wrote: Exactly! Autofire has its uses, especially from a PGMP, but with ACRs and gauss rifles bursts are usually much more effective, in particular if your slug rifle skill is 2 or greater.

Egil
Auto-fire is pretty nice if you have a good dex bonus; ACR, 3d6 plus effect with 3 hits is pretty killer.
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locarno24
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby locarno24 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:45 am

It is. But autofire recoil's a bugger and it eats ammo like it's going out of fashion.

And yes, whilst I admit a one-shot-kill is unlikely, a one-shot-unconcious or one-shot-mission-kill of an opponent is pretty easy with a decent hit.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby dragoner » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:37 pm

locarno24 wrote:It is. But autofire recoil's a bugger and it eats ammo like it's going out of fashion.

And yes, whilst I admit a one-shot-kill is unlikely, a one-shot-unconcious or one-shot-mission-kill of an opponent is pretty easy with a decent hit.
I find the one shot kill pretty hard to achieve, for example, the mutant fungus beasties my players just faced were end 12, str 12; so a one shot would have been 24; and that isn't so uncommon either with armored opponents.

Good point about the recoil, but I also find that combats over about 30 seconds are fairly rare.
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby Colin » Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:23 pm

Within the 2300AD setting, there are opportunities for Mercenary troops. Most of the time, they will be on training/cadre missions, helping a planetary militia. Other times they may be called in on counter-insurgency ops. Using mercs allows the governments to ultimately disown and atrocities committed. Heidelsheimat has a potential for conflict between the Texan and Bavarian colonies, Beowulf has potential between the French and British colonists, Elysia is hiring mercs for both cadre and patrol, lest France try to recapture their wayward colony. Syuhlam has low-level conflict between the Cantonese and Manchurian colonies on par with the hostilities between North and South Korea today. The Incan Republic often hires small mercenary teams for actions against peasant revolts in their colonies.

Of course, there is also the Tanstaafl Free Legion, and their efforts against the alien Kaefers.

Now, whether the economics work is another question.
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:05 pm

dragoner wrote:
Egil Skallagrimsson wrote: Exactly! Autofire has its uses, especially from a PGMP, but with ACRs and gauss rifles bursts are usually much more effective, in particular if your slug rifle skill is 2 or greater.

Egil
Auto-fire is pretty nice if you have a good dex bonus; ACR, 3d6 plus effect with 3 hits is pretty killer.
Now, there is another interesting rule variation, do you, in your game, apply the dex bonus to each shot in a burst, or just one? We use the latter. How about the slug rifle 1, if applicable? Again, we only apply it once, but the rules don't give a clear ruling.

Yeah, if you can get 3 hits off an ACR burst, lots of damage, but against an armoured target the armour should count against each hit, so the overall damage may not be so great.

Still, circumstances vary, and automatic weapons give some handy tactical options.

Egil
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby dragoner » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:28 pm

Egil Skallagrimsson wrote:
Now, there is another interesting rule variation, do you, in your game, apply the dex bonus to each shot in a burst, or just one? We use the latter. How about the slug rifle 1, if applicable? Again, we only apply it once, but the rules don't give a clear ruling.

Yeah, if you can get 3 hits off an ACR burst, lots of damage, but against an armoured target the armour should count against each hit, so the overall damage may not be so great.

Still, circumstances vary, and automatic weapons give some handy tactical options.

Egil
I count each as fire as an attack with: skill ( = 1 ) + Dex bonus + etc. DM's (such as cover); so then damage is: Xd6 + effect - AV, for each hit.

This being the totality of the rule:

• When using auto-fire, roll a number of dice equal to the Auto
rating of the weapon and sort them into pairs as you wish. Each
pair is an attack. Auto-fire attacks can be allocated to as many
different targets as you have attacks provided all the targets are
within six metres of each other. Auto-fire attacks cannot benefit
from a skill any higher than level 1. Weapon skills of 2 or higher
only count as 1 when making auto-fire attacks. Auto-fire uses a
number of rounds equal to 3 the Auto rating.


This seems to be the simplest and most straightforward interpretation; however, if I am to choose which side to err on, it will be to give rather than take away. Auto-fire has inherent penalties, and what the players can use to their advantage, it can be used against them by opponents as well. While technically these fires count as bursts, I am careful with the term as "Burst fire" is another rule preceding under the same Automatic Weapons heading.
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:45 pm

dragoner wrote:
Egil Skallagrimsson wrote:
Now, there is another interesting rule variation, do you, in your game, apply the dex bonus to each shot in a burst, or just one? We use the latter. How about the slug rifle 1, if applicable? Again, we only apply it once, but the rules don't give a clear ruling.

Yeah, if you can get 3 hits off an ACR burst, lots of damage, but against an armoured target the armour should count against each hit, so the overall damage may not be so great.

Still, circumstances vary, and automatic weapons give some handy tactical options.

Egil
I count each as fire as an attack with: skill ( = 1 ) + Dex bonus + etc. DM's (such as cover); so then damage is: Xd6 + effect - AV, for each hit.

This being the totality of the rule:

• When using auto-fire, roll a number of dice equal to the Auto
rating of the weapon and sort them into pairs as you wish. Each
pair is an attack. Auto-fire attacks can be allocated to as many
different targets as you have attacks provided all the targets are
within six metres of each other. Auto-fire attacks cannot benefit
from a skill any higher than level 1. Weapon skills of 2 or higher
only count as 1 when making auto-fire attacks. Auto-fire uses a
number of rounds equal to 3 the Auto rating.


This seems to be the simplest and most straightforward interpretation; however, if I am to choose which side to err on, it will be to give rather than take away. Auto-fire has inherent penalties, and what the players can use to their advantage, it can be used against them by opponents as well. While technically these fires count as bursts, I am careful with the term as "Burst fire" is another rule preceding under the same Automatic Weapons heading.
Yes, nothing in the CRB about whether to add dex and slug rifle to each pair of dice, or just one.

I err on the side of take away :twisted: , autofire seems dangerous enough without allowing what could amount to a double or triple bonus, but either application could be derived from the rules.

In practice we find it works fine, but I expect your interpretation does as well! :lol:

Egil
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby dragoner » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:36 am

Yes, guns are quite dangerous, and the danger often forces the players to come up with alternatives. I'm a more of a no limits type GM, but I'll stick to RAW as much as possible, only house ruling if I feel I have to.
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby OneTrikPony » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:35 am

Personally I depend on house rules.
This rules set isn't very deep. I'd be very interesting to know what experienced players do to make personal combat more interesting.
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Re: AD2300, N00B, Is this game really that deadly?

Postby dragoner » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:36 pm

Hand grenades are great indoors, I find as a player.

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