FTL Communication?

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
GypsyComet
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby GypsyComet » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:45 am

Then FTL Comm would be a reality.
The more reality moves past the assumptions of Traveller's setting, the more likely people will finally realize that it is Period SF and stop trying to treat it like up-to-the-second Hard SF. You don't see people trying to "fix" superhero settings, or two-fisted Pulp, or Steampunk, or wacky Post Apocalypse settings. Charted Space is just like those, and the sooner some people realize it the happier the rest of us will be.
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Wil Mireu
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby Wil Mireu » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:11 am

Reynard wrote:It's called 'The other science fiction universe that has nothing to do with Traveller'. They constantly make them into games but seem to not last long. Makes me wonder.
The length of a time that a game is around for has nothing to do with its quality. A suggestion for you though - perhaps you could consider enjoying Traveller while not sneering at other RPGs?
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby Dracous » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:28 am

GypsyComet wrote: The more reality moves past the assumptions of Traveller's setting, the more likely people will finally realize that it is Period SF and stop trying to treat it like up-to-the-second Hard SF. You don't see people trying to "fix" superhero settings, or two-fisted Pulp, or Steampunk, or wacky Post Apocalypse settings. Charted Space is just like those, and the sooner some people realize it the happier the rest of us will be.
Actually I don't accept that premise. Traveller is "Science-Fiction Adventure in the Far Future." It does not say anywhere in the rules that it is Period SF. Hence your interpretation may be a way of playing the game, and I tip my hat to you for that setting, but it is not the way everyone should play the game. These conversations make the game better. They give those who read them more ideas on what they want in their own universes. This conversation is fascinating, and does not detract from the way I play Traveller.
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Tom Kalbfus
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:46 am

GypsyComet wrote:
Then FTL Comm would be a reality.
The more reality moves past the assumptions of Traveller's setting, the more likely people will finally realize that it is Period SF and stop trying to treat it like up-to-the-second Hard SF. You don't see people trying to "fix" superhero settings, or two-fisted Pulp, or Steampunk, or wacky Post Apocalypse settings. Charted Space is just like those, and the sooner some people realize it the happier the rest of us will be.
Which part of reality moved past Traveller assumptions? We don't have FTL starships yet, so what part of Traveller needs updating?
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby Tom Kalbfus » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:50 am

Wil Mireu wrote:
Reynard wrote:It's called 'The other science fiction universe that has nothing to do with Traveller'. They constantly make them into games but seem to not last long. Makes me wonder.
The length of a time that a game is around for has nothing to do with its quality. A suggestion for you though - perhaps you could consider enjoying Traveller while not sneering at other RPGs?
I think minor parts of the early Traveller timeline need updating, specifically the one about the UN taking over by 2014, hasn't happened yet, might need a minor fudge, but Traveller is not specifically about what happened in the 21st century. Is an FTL drive likely to be invented by 2088? Probably not, but we don't know for sure until 2088 comes around.
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby sideranautae » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:22 pm

GypsyComet wrote:
Then FTL Comm would be a reality.
The more reality moves past the assumptions of Traveller's setting, the more likely people will finally realize that it is Period SF and stop trying to treat it like up-to-the-second Hard SF.
The "period" it is set in thousands of years from NOW. THEREFORE, the implicit assumption is that it is higher tech than TODAY. Any odd timeline mistakes (as to our current date) can just be ignored.
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Reynard
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby Reynard » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:40 pm

Traveller in the 3I setting, and that's the three or four decade iconic one now, has always been flavored with the trappings of an Age of Sail. You didn't see it? Long lonely voyages between ports of call at ports that run from nothing to Andre's Fill It Yerself to Ports of the Galaxy plus pirates and miners looking for the motherload and space battles between barrages of energy cannons to trading with the natives in exotic locales a few cosmic klicks from the boom town colony of the region. Can't think of any other sci fi game that combines those elements without being an actual AoS game. Taking away the communication by the Speed of Ship munchkins the game into something it was not. Ever notice the jump torpedo never went beyond the one adventure? It was just wrong.
Last edited by Reynard on Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GypsyComet
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby GypsyComet » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:24 pm

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
GypsyComet wrote:
Then FTL Comm would be a reality.
The more reality moves past the assumptions of Traveller's setting, the more likely people will finally realize that it is Period SF and stop trying to treat it like up-to-the-second Hard SF. You don't see people trying to "fix" superhero settings, or two-fisted Pulp, or Steampunk, or wacky Post Apocalypse settings. Charted Space is just like those, and the sooner some people realize it the happier the rest of us will be.
Which part of reality moved past Traveller assumptions? We don't have FTL starships yet, so what part of Traveller needs updating?
We have a parallel topic that claims the term "High Guard" is obsolete because the Traveller assumption that gas giants are typically in the outer system is, so far, not proving out. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about, and what others talk about when they call out the rampant negativity. "Oh look, Traveller's assumptions are wrong again, therefore Traveller sucks and needs to be changed". Real world advances in the medical field and in computers have been leading to the same calls for decades. "The TL chart is screwed up, they should change it."

NO.

If you want to work up your own setting, go right ahead, but Charted Space is firmly set in the universe as the 50s, 60s and 70s knew it, and any advances in knowledge that threaten the setting's basic workings should be ignored.

Prime recent example: Gas giants in the habitable zone probably can't develop life-bearing worlds because their radiation belts would sterilize any worldlet that didn't have an improbably strong magnetic field of its own. The same goes for the idea of worlds close in to a red dwarf, as was being described just the week before by another source as the way to have a huge number of habitable worlds in one system.

Some of our advances in knowledge actually help the setting, or answer some of its internal questions. Rogue planets and Brown Dwarf stars are an example of this for Charted Space, but at the same time do grievous damage to the 2300AD setting.

Some advances are neutral, such as the stellar population updates that led to the TNE star table changes and gave us more worlds that could keep their shirtsleeve environments when looked at with the advanced detail mechanics.

The answer is simple.
Every time something pops up in the news, or some source that, mysteriously, only you have access to, or in a technical paper, that sets Traveller-related alarm bells off in your head, recognize that it will not affect the OTU because it will be ignored, decide for yourself whether it will affect your personal game, and understand that any attempts to conflate the two will just get you labeled as a mannerless grouse or worse.
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dragoner
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby dragoner » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:33 pm

Where are Gas Giants assumed to be in the outer orbits? I use H&E, it has them in the inner orbits.
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby sideranautae » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:35 pm

GypsyComet wrote:
If you want to work up your own setting, go right ahead, but Charted Space is firmly set in the universe as the 50s, 60s and 70s knew it, and any advances in knowledge that threaten the setting's basic workings should be ignored.
House rule all you want. Computers have been updated in Mgt. (so you shouldn't play Mgt. Do you play it?) T5 has also updated. Go tell Marc that he did it wrong and should have ignored advances in knowledge. :roll: :lol:

But take heart. As the rules are updated you can continue to play with old rule sets. No one is forcing you to buy updated rules.
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GypsyComet
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby GypsyComet » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:44 pm

sideranautae wrote:
GypsyComet wrote:
If you want to work up your own setting, go right ahead, but Charted Space is firmly set in the universe as the 50s, 60s and 70s knew it, and any advances in knowledge that threaten the setting's basic workings should be ignored.
Wrong again. Computers have been updated in Mgt. T5 has also updated.
And yet, you were one of those complaining about how computers in the game are still stuck in the 60s.
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GypsyComet
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby GypsyComet » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:49 pm

dragoner wrote:Where are Gas Giants assumed to be in the outer orbits? I use H&E, it has them in the inner orbits.
CT Scouts, MT, and TNE all give priority to Outer Zone orbits for gas giants, placing them inward only if no spaces are available. Imperial fleet doctrine for entering a system is to take control of and refuel at a gas giant first, which presumes they are in the outer system and not in close where they can be easily protected.
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sideranautae
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby sideranautae » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:51 pm

GypsyComet wrote:
sideranautae wrote:
GypsyComet wrote:
If you want to work up your own setting, go right ahead, but Charted Space is firmly set in the universe as the 50s, 60s and 70s knew it, and any advances in knowledge that threaten the setting's basic workings should be ignored.
Wrong again. Computers have been updated in Mgt. T5 has also updated.
And yet, you were one of those complaining about how computers in the game are still stuck in the 60s.
Not about Mgt's new volume rules for them. ANYWAY, I just made a point that quite successfully nulified your argument.

So, DO you play the heretical Mgt? Or, do you only play CT rules (50's-70's) view of technology as per your claim above?
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GypsyComet
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby GypsyComet » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:05 pm

sideranautae wrote: ANYWAY, I just made a point that quite successfully nulified your argument.
You choose to focus on one piece of technology here, ignoring your own arguments about astrography elsewhere.

Computers haven't changed as much as you seem to think. The volume change for computers actually happened in T20, and I approved at the time. Your computer and bridge arguments in other threads show a desire to shave a few tons here and there, which is, in the grand scheme of eight editions, not a change at all.
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dragoner
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby dragoner » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:08 pm

GypsyComet wrote:
dragoner wrote:Where are Gas Giants assumed to be in the outer orbits? I use H&E, it has them in the inner orbits.
CT Scouts, MT, and TNE all give priority to Outer Zone orbits for gas giants, placing them inward only if no spaces are available. Imperial fleet doctrine for entering a system is to take control of and refuel at a gas giant first, which presumes they are in the outer system and not in close where they can be easily protected.
Huh, yeah, my memory grows dim to thinking how we did it 25 years ago; H&E is built off of CT/MT though. Gas Giant location, as to the second part, originally, there wasn't any 'easier to protect' than another location anyways. You jumped in a system, you fought, in HG2/TCS. What the Imperium has is size, it technically could generate giant amount of ships, it was just too degenerate and corrupt to be effective.
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby dragoner » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:10 pm

GypsyComet wrote:
sideranautae wrote: ANYWAY, I just made a point that quite successfully nulified your argument.
You choose to focus on one piece of technology here, ignoring your own arguments about astrography elsewhere.

Computers haven't changed as much as you seem to think. The volume change for computers actually happened in T20, and I approved at the time. Your computer and bridge arguments in other threads show a desire to shave a few tons here and there, which is, in the grand scheme of eight editions, not a change at all.
It is common for people to confuse personal electronics, like a laptop or iphone, with actual computers and electronics.
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby sideranautae » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:14 pm

GypsyComet wrote:
sideranautae wrote: ANYWAY, I just made a point that quite successfully nulified your argument.
You choose to focus on one piece of technology here, ignoring your own arguments about astrography elsewhere.
Umm, sure.

Okay, so you DON'T ignore rule changes updating the tech of the 50-70's in Trav. as you advise others to do.

That's all I was asking. By refusing to answer, you answered.
Last edited by sideranautae on Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sideranautae
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby sideranautae » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:15 pm

dragoner wrote:
It is common for people to confuse personal electronics, like a laptop or iphone, with actual computers and electronics.
Fortunately I started design actual electronic devices 30 years ago. :wink:
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby Meanderer » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:22 pm

I think minor parts of the early Traveller timeline need updating, specifically the one about the UN taking over by 2014, hasn't happened yet, might need a minor fudge, but Traveller is not specifically about what happened in the 21st century. Is an FTL drive likely to be invented by 2088? Probably not, but we don't know for sure until 2088 comes around.
Needs updating if:
1. You insist on a future that derives entirely from our own current era (as opposed to a what if the UN took over in 2014), AND
2. You assume all these dates have to be correct in the timeline. Players who protest that the UN hasn't taken over yet could be told: "Ah yes, I see which side of the debate you are on. There are others who argue that the Earth dating system was revised to make a clear break from the whole Christian dating business. Since Britain had resumed a position of financial and cultural dominance in Europe, they changed the year zero to mark the date of the Roman conquest of Britain (previously AD 43). With two dating systems they have got some confusion in events. The UN government was formed in 2014 AB, which would be 2056 AD or CE

The history professors are still arguing about this....
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Re: FTL Communication?

Postby dragoner » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:26 pm

Meanderer wrote:
The history professors are still arguing about this....
Yeah, it is like the arguments of when the western part of the Roman empire actually "fall"; 3500 years in the future, people will neither know, nor care what happened in 2014 on Earth.

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