Interstellar vs. International

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domingojs23
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Interstellar vs. International

Postby domingojs23 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:21 pm

Dear Friends,

Today, we use the term "international" to describe activity relating to the interaction of nation-states, ie international law, international politics, etc. In the Traveller universe, when we would refer to the interaction of the nation-states of the period such as the Imperium, Zhodani Consulate, etc, would one still use the term international, or interstellar ?

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Gary
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby CosmicGamer » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:22 pm

None of the above? I'm no canon aficionado so others will have to weigh in but as far as I know, there is nothing like a United Nations or other multinational governing organizations in Traveller so I feel there would be no such terminology.

I can see people referencing accords, treaties, alliance, union, convention, agreement... specific organizations and understandings between a limited number of Traveller "nations".
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ShawnDriscoll
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:18 pm

Is there international law? Is there a site that has it as a PDF for download? I'm curious what it says and who wrote it.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby CosmicGamer » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:40 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:Is there international law? Is there a site that has it as a PDF for download? I'm curious what it says and who wrote it.
For starters, lots of documents over the 60+ year history of the UN. Maybe search on "international law commission pdf"?
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:54 pm

I found some wishfull-thinking international laws that countries do not recognize (these are laws that apply to nations and not people in nations). And the UN does not enforce them anyway. I would guess that the Imperium has no control of what goes on in Zhodani territory and others.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby phavoc » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:55 pm

There are, in fact, some international laws and treaty's that bind the signatories to them. International laws and treaties govern the sea, and use of space, mining on the sea floor, trade, commerce, etc.

And there are a few international laws that bind all humans to them, whether their countries or individuals agree to them or not (such as Crimes Against Humanity).

Though like any law or treaty, if you have a big enough stick to beat off others, laws need not apply to you.

In some ways the Imperium acts like the UN, except in their case they have the biggest sticks, membership is more or less involuntary, and there aren't exceptions to some rules. It's a polyglot of feudalism and federalism, with a bit of republicanism thrown in.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:06 pm

The Geneva Convention stuff applies only during war. During "peace time", countries can dispose of people without issue. The UN doesn't do anything. The Imperium (if it was real) is pretty much a space empire.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby F33D » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:30 pm

Inter-empire might be more accurate. The Imerium is totally different than the current U.N. There are no independent treaties between an Imperium member world and the Zho Consulate for instance. There would be treaties between the Zho & Imperium gov't though. Treaties for inter-empire trade rules/laws, etc. Feudalism rules within the Imperium.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:38 am

I like that the Imperium just governs over the space between worlds (space lanes), and lets the worlds govern themselves.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby locarno24 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:13 am

Yes and no. There are still 'hard limits' that the Imperium expects a member world to abide by (albeit that they're not especially strict), and violating them intentionally and/or repeatedly is likely to result in it raining marines. Things like nukes/psionics/ancients-origin technology, for example.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby Sgt_G » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:52 am

would one still use the term international, or interstellar?
Inter-planetary. People live on planets, not stars. :roll:
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby Boneguard » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:43 pm

Sgt_G wrote:
would one still use the term international, or interstellar?
Inter-planetary. People live on planets, not stars. :roll:
Actually I could see:

-International (Between Nation within a planet);
-Interplanetary (Between planets/moon/Stations within the same solar system) and;
-Interstellar (Between inhabited star systems).

All 3 levels could have different rules whether it is between Different Empire/Authority or not.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby Jacqual » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:05 pm

I believe the assumed traveller campaign which is the Third Imperium, would use the term Imperial Law for anything that is not under control of a planetary law. This covers things like Nuclear Weapons and such like that, these laws may be inforced locally by a Imperial world with it's SDB's as part of its agreement with the Imperium. This is why player's can have the character's Starship land on a planet at the Imperial Starbase, with weapons onboard that the planet may not allow. Now these weapons would not be allowed off the starship on this world, but can be stored in the ships locker. As long as those particular weapons do not violate imperial law they are allowed on the ship.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby High Orbit Drifter » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:46 pm

domingojs23 wrote: Today, we use the term "international" to describe activity relating to the interaction of nation-states, ie international law, international politics, etc. In the Traveller universe, when we would refer to the interaction of the nation-states of the period such as the Imperium, Zhodani Consulate, etc, would one still use the term international, or interstellar ?
A quick read-through of some of the sector books reveals that 'interstellar' is used, while 'international' isn't. To me this makes sense since we don't really think of the 3I or the Consulate, etc., as nation-states. So if they're not 'nations' then you don't use inter'national'.

But you're right in pointing out there is a gap here. "Interstellar" covers a lot of ground. It can mean anything from worlds all belonging to the same umbrella government (the 3I) to relations between mutually hostile governments (the 3I and the Confederacy). I'm sure Anglic has a proper term for it, relations between multi-stellar states, but I can't think of a good word that translates into English without sounding clunky.

IMO international would only be used on balkanized worlds where you are dealing with actual nation-states.

"Interworld" relations is nearly as bad as interstellar - there is no clear limit to the definition. And it sounds kind of clunky.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby Wil Mireu » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:36 pm

What about "interpolity"? Though then you'd have "interpolitical rivalries", which sounds a bit weird.
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Re: Interstellar vs. International

Postby rust » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:20 am

In my settings I use "Interplanetary Law" for treaties which bind
all or most of the governments of the inhabited planets and "In-
tergovernmental Law" for treaties between the governments of
specific planets. For example, the treaty which covers the rescue
of stranded spacefarers has been signed and ratified by all of the
governments and has thereby become interplanetary law, the
treaty which covers the free trade between planets A and B has
been signed and ratified by the governments of A and B only, it
is therefore intergovernmental law.

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