2200AD

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rgrove0172
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2200AD

Postby rgrove0172 » Sun May 12, 2013 9:49 pm

Im considering running my game in an earlier time period within the 2300AD universe. Im interested in a period where there werent quite so many colonies (a smaller more undeveloped and detailed setting) and the technology wasnt as advanced. Stutterwarp had some glitches perhaps, weapons systems were more conventional and the like. Any suggestions on a date? I mentioned 2200AD just as an eye catcher, I think Id be open to any earlier period.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby crazy_cat » Mon May 13, 2013 7:19 am

I've been thinking of something similar - using around 2200 as a starting point.

Rather than using the 2300 universe however I'm thinking of extrapolating on from the 2100 Orbital setting - so keeping nuclear rockets, spin habitats, no grav technology, and space is big and dangerous to be in etc and adding in extra hadwavium powered FTL travel of some variety to get mankind out to a few new systems ripe for colonisation and exploration and adventurey/conflict type stuff.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon May 13, 2013 8:12 am

Orbital or Chthonian Stars. Unless you have tried those already.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Colin » Mon May 13, 2013 4:33 pm

Rolling 2300 back to 2200...

DNA Modification more acceptable, but the first stirrings of the protest movements can be felt. First Neos developed.

Stutterwarp is limited to Old Commercial technology. Could introduce some glitches, likely linked to reduced performance at longer ranges. Cost 10x as much.

No beanstalks. Surface to orbit is usually liquid-fueled airframe rockets (shuttles), small spaceplanes just coming into general use. SSTOs common on the frontier. Nuclear-powered spaceplanes developed for use on King.

France is even more on top, US is isolationist on Earth, Manchuria is having an internal crisis, Indian subcontinent is embroiled in low-level warfare. German "nations" are fighting each other, with Bavaria taking the high road.

King colony just established. Aurore, Hochbaden, Kie Yuma, (and many more) not established.

No alien contact yet, just Eber ruins.

No man-portable plasma weapons. Gauss weapons are only heavy weapons ("railguns"), no combat walkers, though assistive exoskeletons are available. Combat vehicles are usually wheeled or tracked, hovercraft just seeing initial use.

That's just off the top of my head.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby 2330ADUSA1 » Mon May 13, 2013 5:53 pm

I have to ask this...

Quote:

France is even more on top, US is isolationist on Earth, Manchuria is having an internal crisis, Indian subcontinent is embroiled in low-level warfare. German "nations" are fighting each other, with Bavaria taking the high road.


Whatever caused 2300 history to be written the way it was...seriously? There are more guns 2.5 per pop in that Western section of the US than anywhere else in the country plus all the US Military installations, plus Mexico couldn't organize enough fighting force to stop Drug Lords let alone create an organized fighting force

The US folks and Texas would have never splintered, and they would have used Nukes if they had to. Mexico whom has NONE, could have totally been taken out by 4. Do you honestly think any country if being invaded the way the history for this game was, wouln't use Nukes. Also they would have had to come through Texas and that would have fallen first. The history was written by someone that does not know America or American's, and has no clew about fighting strategy and capabilities or resources.

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Re: 2200AD

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon May 13, 2013 6:23 pm

2330ADUSA1 wrote:The US folks and Texas would have never splintered, and they would have used Nukes if they had to.
Not sure what a US folk is in the near future. But if Texas has the will to fight, they would. Would they have the will to use nukes though? The growing demographic in Texas shows that Texas will fade away just from continued population decline while another culture grows in population there.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Lemnoc » Mon May 13, 2013 7:04 pm

2330ADUSA1 wrote:Whatever caused 2300 history to be written the way it was...seriously? There are more guns 2.5 per pop in that Western section of the US than anywhere else in the country plus all the US Military installations, plus Mexico couldn't organize enough fighting force to stop Drug Lords let alone create an organized fighting force

...Simply Amazing pure unreal fantasy!!!
It is what it is, USA#1, and the backstory of 2300 has been hashed through many times, the loose political-economic-military simulation run by GDW staff that produced it. The story is out there on the Interwebnets. Live with it or change it; don't get upset about it because it doesn't put your beloved country in the best possible light.

The map of China actually bugs me more than the idea that Texas has seceded (for the umpteenth time). The idea that the USA could tear itself apart ideologically to its ultimate ruin, or that fanatics were at the center of it, doesn't seem so far-fetched to me. If you think of the role of France over the past 900 years, rather than the past 90, the situation in Europe doesn't seem so far-fetched to me, either.

If you don't like it, don't use it.

ADD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_ ... pe_Hidalgo
MAP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_o ... a_1847.jpg
Last edited by Lemnoc on Mon May 13, 2013 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby crazy_cat » Mon May 13, 2013 7:13 pm

Ah well; we got to post number 5 at least before somebody waded in with one of Travellers traditional problem issues :(
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Re: 2200AD

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon May 13, 2013 7:18 pm

I use alternate timelines anyway when playing in the future. See Fallout 3.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Colin » Mon May 13, 2013 9:24 pm

I can't really speak to the original justifications. However...
The Mexican annexation of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and SoCal occurred after the States had been thumped by nukes themselves, while a 3-way Civil War was going on. Texas, itself, as a political entity, has no nukes. Any nukes stationed on Texas soil were likely used during the war. While Mexico may not have had nukes, it had a big army, and score of potential sympathizers in the local Latino populations (whether this would have actually gone this way is another issue). American (and Texan) troops were posted (and abandoned) overseas, and Galveston, Dallas-Fort Worth and Austin had recently grown a couple of craters.
As for Texan succession, they've done it before (twice?), have threatened it recently, and if "abandoned" by the infighting US at large, would like do so again. Indeed, of any state currently int eh union, Texas is the most likely to have the wherewithal, and will, to go its own way.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Lemnoc » Mon May 13, 2013 10:47 pm

Colin—Yes, I seem to vaguely recall at some point in the distant past and fictional history some sections of the United States were dissatisfied with political outcomes that then got a little uppity and took it upon themselves to read the Constitution in, er, creative ways to propose dissolving the Union. Outlandish, impossible as that seems! I mean, has Texas ever expressed dissatisfaction with Federalism?

I like your attempt at a rationalization.

IM2300U, I see America as the victim of many self-inflicted wounds, some tragic, none of which were actually nuclear in nature. IM2300U, the West in particular was disinterested in the Old Grudges of the Slave States, accusations of Northern Aggression, Calhounism, etc, etc, tired of the whole nonsense, and took the opportunities of division to form new associations. The 2300 map I see as a demographic reassertion of the linguo-cultural lines of Guadalupe Hidalgo. In other words, I don’t see LA as the annoyed captive of Mexican culture so much as a happy reunion of families long separated.

You don't shoot or nuke that which you love. That's my rationalization for the N America map at least.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby dragoner » Mon May 13, 2013 11:46 pm

It is like history by Monty Python. We need giant hedgehogs taking over London shouting "Dinsdale!" :lol:
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Colin » Tue May 14, 2013 6:41 am

Holy crap! What, did you see my notes for the Core Sourcebook?

There may be gaps and issues with the Future History of 2300. However, it is what it is, and it was specifically-designed to be not-USA-centric.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Nathan Brazil » Tue May 14, 2013 7:35 am

2330ADUSA1 wrote:I have to ask this...
...
Whatever caused 2300 history to be written the way it was...
Simply Amazing pure unreal fantasy!!!
Hey 2330ADUSA1,
Based on your statement, it sounds like you may not know the basis for 2300. If you already know, then you are feigning a lack of knowledge and I am sorry for reiterating. It's origin is from the history of the Twilight 2000 RPG written in the 1980's positing a relatively low level nuclear WWIII. It followed the tropes of the time, for good or bad (big bad USSR, Red Dawn, Cold War gone hot, all that jazz). The books in that game had national US government authority break down between the civilian authority groups and the military groups. Once GDW got it in their head to do 2300, they used world situation established in T2000 and did "The Great Game" (an inhouse war game) to establish the world as portrayed in 2300. The person who played France was the most successful overall which is why France is the big cheese in 2300.

I understand your opinion on the future history. Overall, I agree with you. There is much there I have trouble swallowing as well, as I am Mexican American and know a bit of what Mexico is like from relatives living there, though I live in Illinois and not down South.
Things like
Mexico likes socialism (and corruption, I have a relative who worked in the national government, oh boy...), but they weren't Communists (using the 1980's big C). Why would they have sided with the USSR and Cuba in the first place?
Besides the US/Mexico border towns there's hundreds of miles of Mexican desert from the central regions. Supply lines....
Colin did much to change or obscure the origins to make it more modern, but it still is a product of its time (BTW nice job Colin :wink: )
But, meh, it is another game and not real life. Even if in my heart Han shot first... :lol:
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Nathan Brazil » Tue May 14, 2013 7:55 am

Big tip on scale if you do canon:
Expeditions over the rest of the century explored to about 20 light years from Earth and settlements were established on about 10 extra-solar planets....
By 2199, the Second Age of Exploration was drawing to a close. Earth had explored parts of a sphere out to 20 lightyears and established colonies dedicated to exploiting the resources of many virgin worlds. - p.7
Can't have colonies further out. Unless of course you just find a nice place and "Let's live here, we'll explore later" :roll:

Also the GDW V2.0 of 2300 has a list of colonies with colonization dates on the Adventure's Guide, p.85. The dates in some do not agree with the establisment of stutterwarp in the Mongoose edition 2146AD, but might help in determining exploration patterns of the nations over the following 54 years or so.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby 2330ADUSA1 » Tue May 14, 2013 12:21 pm

I am quite aware of the history as written for the Traveller 2300 AD game...and I challenge that much of it would never have happened that way to begin with. So with that being said, I just except the "game history" as written and then expand on it from there.

Now my own game is set in 2330 at game start and my players have played forward till 2333, April, ?? time frame. For me I can see why the US would focus on settling and Terra-Forming Mars, honestly besides the Earth's Moon (Luna), Mars is the next step for real world humans.

Hey for me I think mankind should explore the possibilites of Terra-Forming Mars, Venus, and explore Titan to see what is under that Ice Cap covered oceans. Doing the work to actually Terra-Forming both Mars and venus would help us figure out how to fix the Earth and restore her. I feel more should have been developed in that direction, with many mining and manufacturing outposts scattered about the SOL system. I honestly feel that is what would and should happen before we reach out into the stars.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Tue May 14, 2013 4:41 pm

2330ADUSA1 wrote:I just except the "game history" as written and then expand on it from there.
I'm trying to think of an RPG about the future that got their future timeline correct.
2330ADUSA1 wrote:I think mankind should explore the possibilites of Terra-Forming Mars
I think Mars needs a magnetic field first before even bothering with that. I'm guessing you are talking in a game sense though, and not for reals.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Nathan Brazil » Tue May 14, 2013 6:02 pm

On terraforming:
In the context of the original post (2200AD) and the canon of the setting, not much terraforming would be done and even less later. Terraforming techniques using plants and animals, yes or maybe. Macroscale engineering projects, no. Once humans were back in space, terraforming would have been a subject of discussion. But did we have the tech to do it, then? Once Tirane was found, that discussion would have been tabled in favor of Return on Investment (ROI).

There are several limiting factors involving terraforming. Some more speculative than others:
*Humans have only been back in space since 2089. Only 111 years in this discussion or 211 with the default start year. Would there be enough time?
*Possibly, the Melbourne Accords of 2119. Its major provisions are spelled out on p.6. Speculation: what limits on colonization?
*Stutterwarp invented in 2146 and the Alpha Centauri system, the first explored, having an Earth-like world. The ROI of colonizing Tirane is likely better and faster than trying to fix other stubborn mud balls.
*Technological Level - Do humans have the ability in 2200 to do it? Some things like the beanstalks suggest we can do some macro-engineering (moving asteroids to be tethered) later on, but it seems genetic engineering of colonists and life forms is the path used rather than throw ice asteroids to increase the hydrosphere other physical engineering of the planets themselves.

As a more "realistic" setting, it would all be about ROI. As long as there are new planets to find and exploit, ROI will make terraforming the less profitable choice. Once DNAM is introduced even less profitable, as you can place workers on less tasty worlds faster. Well, my Lv.02 anyways.
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Re: 2200AD

Postby Lemnoc » Wed May 15, 2013 12:41 am

Nathan Brazil wrote:On terraforming:

...As a more "realistic" setting, it would all be about ROI. As long as there are new planets to find and exploit, ROI will make terraforming the less profitable choice. Once DNAM is introduced even less profitable, as you can place workers on less tasty worlds faster. Well, my Lv.02 anyways.
Yes; seems the discovery of garden worlds would put the kibosh on efforts to rehabilitate terrible worlds. The more gardens the less interesting the weed patches. I also have that sense about some of the near-Core outpost worlds like Barnard’s. Meh, what’s the point of maintaining much of an outpost there?

Additionally, some terraforming projects would be easier than others. Lifting Terra out of an ice age would be easier than turning Venus into your next ski resort. Mars would be sort of on the hard side. So you have to ask again, to what purpose?

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