Corsair Question

Discuss the Traveller RPG and its many settings
Greylond
Mongoose
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Corsair Question

Postby Greylond » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:03 am

Actually, I like the description in the MgT mainbook about the corsair originally being a "Pocket Warship" and IMTU they are used not just by pirates but also by some cheap mercenary naval units. Case in point one of the PC ships in my game is a Corsair and they're going to be hired as a convoy escort/pirate hunter.
GypsyComet
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2186
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:09 am

Re: Corsair Question

Postby GypsyComet » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:38 am

mr31337 wrote:@GypsyComet

Thanks for the info and deckplans!
No problem!

I found this picture of a corsair at the Traveller Library Data, who would agree this is roughly what a classic corsair might look like?

Image
That is based on the CT/MT artwork for the Corsair, yes.
CTMTTNET4GTT20THMGTT5
It's all Traveller, so it's all Good.
mr31337
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Corsair Question

Postby mr31337 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:48 am

mr31337 wrote:
rust wrote:
Captain Jonah wrote:In terms of the paint job and the flaming eye. By the time you are close enough to get a visual on the corsair you are in deep trouble.
Yes for a free trader, no for the system defense boat closing
in to take a closer look at the strange ship ...
I've never been certain, do SDB's operate freely in Imperial Space (ie: over the 10 diameter limit)? Would they have jurisdiction there (other than the size of their guns)?
Anybody know the answer to this please?
Greylond
Mongoose
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Corsair Question

Postby Greylond » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:08 am

See the High Guard book, page 2.

Planetary Navy usually has the responsibility up to the Main World 100D Limit, along with Gas Giants and/or any other inhabited worlds/belts.

Subsector Navy handles the spaceways, trade/commerce across the Subsector.

Imperial Navy defends the Sectors and Imperial Boundaries.
mr31337
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Corsair Question

Postby mr31337 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:11 am

Greylond wrote:See the High Guard book, page 2.

Planetary Navy usually has the responsibility up to the Main World 100D Limit, along with Gas Giants and/or any other inhabited worlds/belts.

Subsector Navy handles the spaceways, trade/commerce across the Subsector.

Imperial Navy defends the Sectors and Imperial Boundaries.
Thanks, I'll read up.
Dave Chase
Lesser Spotted Mongoose
Posts: 738
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:48 pm
Location: Kansas, USA

Re: Corsair Question

Postby Dave Chase » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:18 am

rust wrote:I suspect that a true corsair would attempt to look more
like a merchant vessel, and would therefore have a more
bland colour scheme, but otherwise the ship looks like a
corsair to me. :wink:

What? That's my merchant ship, completely and legally registerd as a merchant ship.
Why the corsair body and paint job. Because most corsair pirates don't really want to mess with another pirate ship. ;)

Dave Chase
Freedom is the ability to express your self under your own control
.
It is also the right to walk away from those you don't want to listen to.
Greylond
Mongoose
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Corsair Question

Postby Greylond » Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:20 am

Dave Chase wrote:
rust wrote:I suspect that a true corsair would attempt to look more
like a merchant vessel, and would therefore have a more
bland colour scheme, but otherwise the ship looks like a
corsair to me. :wink:

What? That's my merchant ship, completely and legally registerd as a merchant ship.
Why the corsair body and paint job. Because most corsair pirates don't really want to mess with another pirate ship. ;)
Yea, add in that the Corsair was bought by a crew that the highest ranking character spent his last 2 terms in Naval Intelligence and he rolled "Independent Operation" twice and you've got the ship from my game. :)
dragoner
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Indiana, US

Re: Corsair Question

Postby dragoner » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:29 am

mr31337 wrote:
mr31337 wrote: I've never been certain, do SDB's operate freely in Imperial Space (ie: over the 10 diameter limit)? Would they have jurisdiction there (other than the size of their guns)?
Anybody know the answer to this please?

IMO it is like the US system of where you don't have to be arrested by federal agents to be charged with a federal crime, so local SDB's would be the enforcement of Imperial Law unless the Imperium was against it for that particular system. Most likely there would be a noble appointed prosecutor in system or maybe for a few systems if the populations were low.
User avatar
locarno24
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:46 pm
Location: Wildly Variable

Re: Corsair Question

Postby locarno24 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:13 am

IMO it is like the US system of where you don't have to be arrested by federal agents to be charged with a federal crime, so local SDB's would be the enforcement of Imperial Law unless the Imperium was against it for that particular system. Most likely there would be a noble appointed prosecutor in system or maybe for a few systems if the populations were low.
There'd be a man in system. Any system not worth assigning at least one Imperial representative to directly isn't going to have SDBs in the first place....

Note that the 100D limit (and equivalent radius around off-world regions) is the system fleet's responsibility. That's not the same as saying they won't respond to a distress call from a ship under attack outside 100D - but they won't be making patrols out there, and they'll probably have to notify someone planetside (akin to crossing a police jurisdiction county line 'in hot pursuit'), which means the attacker will have longer before they arrive.

Also note that some systems with multiple worlds have pre-agreed 'flight corridors' between those worlds which ARE SDF responsibilities. More importantly, any ship way off those corridors is automatically a bit suspicious.

That's the main problem with piracy, really. Unless you're heading for a moon of a large gas giant, or a planet in fairly low solar orbit, or you mis-jump, you should normally appear pretty much dead on the 100D limit. Opportunities to attack - at least in a system with a meaningful security fleet - will be pretty hard to come by.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
rust
Chief Mongoose
Posts: 5941
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:17 pm
Location: Sonthofen / Germany

Re: Corsair Question

Postby rust » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:14 am

mr31337 wrote: I've never been certain, do SDB's operate freely in Imperial Space (ie: over the 10 diameter limit)? Would they have jurisdiction there (other than the size of their guns)?
It seems there is a slight misunderstanding. The system squadrons
of the member worlds of the Third Imperium are also Imperial Navy
squadrons, and can therefore of course operate within Imperial Spa-
ce - see this article from the Traveller Wiki, "Squadron Classification"
at the end of the article:

http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Navy
mr31337
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Corsair Question

Postby mr31337 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:05 pm

Very interesting comments, thanks everybody!
phavoc
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4921
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:13 pm

Re: Corsair Question

Postby phavoc » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:44 pm

mr31337 wrote: I've never been certain, do SDB's operate freely in Imperial Space (ie: over the 10 diameter limit)? Would they have jurisdiction there (other than the size of their guns)?
As their name belies, SDB's are just that - System Defense Boats. In systems where they are deployed, they tend to stooge around (i.e. lurk) on the fringes of the system, or hiding in/near gas giants. Their job is to harass/destroy the enemy. At 400 tons, and while they are heavily armored, they are annoyances to larger warships, but potentially deadly to lightly or unarmed enemy transports, tankers and other support craft. A 5,000 ton destroyer could easily take on and eliminate a handful of SDB's. But a 10,000 freighter or tanker (assuming they aren't heavily armed) could take significant damage from the SDB before help arrived - if not being outright destroyed.

So their effectiveness would be greatly reduced if they were out in the open most of the time. You wouldn't normally encounter one near inhabited planets or in primary shipping lanes because they would shun being exposed. Think of them like attack submarines of today. Subs don't pop up to say 'hi!' to surface ships. Their job is lurk in the depths, to be hidden while they play cat-and-mouse with their prey.
mr31337
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Corsair Question

Postby mr31337 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:52 pm

phavoc wrote:As their name belies, SDB's are just that - System Defense Boats. In systems where they are deployed, they tend to stooge around (i.e. lurk) on the fringes of the system, or hiding in/near gas giants. Their job is to harass/destroy the enemy. At 400 tons, and while they are heavily armored, they are annoyances to larger warships, but potentially deadly to lightly or unarmed enemy transports, tankers and other support craft. A 5,000 ton destroyer could easily take on and eliminate a handful of SDB's. But a 10,000 freighter or tanker (assuming they aren't heavily armed) could take significant damage from the SDB before help arrived - if not being outright destroyed.

So their effectiveness would be greatly reduced if they were out in the open most of the time. You wouldn't normally encounter one near inhabited planets or in primary shipping lanes because they would shun being exposed. Think of them like attack submarines of today. Subs don't pop up to say 'hi!' to surface ships. Their job is lurk in the depths, to be hidden while they play cat-and-mouse with their prey.
Just because that's their name doesn't mean they have any 'Imperial' legal jurisdiction outside of 100D...or do they...is my point. What's your view on their legality over 100D?
GypsyComet
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 2186
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:09 am

Re: Corsair Question

Postby GypsyComet » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:08 pm

Every world in the Imperium is an Imperial member. If a world can project power through the whole system, its SDBs are deputized, as it were, to serve Imperial Law in areas beyond the legal reach of their homeworld. That this is also serving their homeworld as protection from hooligans in the outsystem is a bonus.

This is the only way to make law enforcement work, since the subsector and sector fleet elements can't be everywhere at once. In Imperial space the default Imperial Officer is the Portmaster. Important worlds may have more, and real backwaters (E ports) may not have even that, but the Portmaster or his Security Chief are where you start.
CTMTTNET4GTT20THMGTT5
It's all Traveller, so it's all Good.
phavoc
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4921
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:13 pm

Re: Corsair Question

Postby phavoc » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:01 pm

mr31337 wrote:
phavoc wrote:As their name belies, SDB's are just that - System Defense Boats. In systems where they are deployed, they tend to stooge around (i.e. lurk) on the fringes of the system, or hiding in/near gas giants. Their job is to harass/destroy the enemy. At 400 tons, and while they are heavily armored, they are annoyances to larger warships, but potentially deadly to lightly or unarmed enemy transports, tankers and other support craft. A 5,000 ton destroyer could easily take on and eliminate a handful of SDB's. But a 10,000 freighter or tanker (assuming they aren't heavily armed) could take significant damage from the SDB before help arrived - if not being outright destroyed.

So their effectiveness would be greatly reduced if they were out in the open most of the time. You wouldn't normally encounter one near inhabited planets or in primary shipping lanes because they would shun being exposed. Think of them like attack submarines of today. Subs don't pop up to say 'hi!' to surface ships. Their job is lurk in the depths, to be hidden while they play cat-and-mouse with their prey.
Just because that's their name doesn't mean they have any 'Imperial' legal jurisdiction outside of 100D...or do they...is my point. What's your view on their legality over 100D?
My point is that you shouldn't see or encounter them within the 100D limit. SDB's are warships, not police or patrol craft. Worlds that would deploy them within their system do so in order to make it harder for an invader to hold onto the system. While a world's government might fund the construction of some, they would operationally be integrated into sector-level or higher fleets. There also exists an SDB transport that is used to move SDB's between star systems, or even within if the distance warrants it. SDB's don't make cost-effective system patrol ships, so you wouldn't see them performing those types functions. Since they have one basic purpose, that increases the liklihood of them being attached to a sector or higher fleet. While sector fleets are, technically, raised and paid for at the local level, they are integrated into the command and control structure of the Imperial navy. So that could be construed as SDB's being (in)formal extensions of the Imperial navy.

As far as being "Imperial" in legal jurisdiction, well, planetary authority/control more or less ends at 100D. A planets patrol craft would/should intervene in the event of criminal or other activity outside of that 100D range (they could simply state they are enforcing Imperial law). Where it might get sticky is if you had multiple governments within a single system that jealously guarded their perogatives within the system. I doubt SDB's would get involved, but other types of ships might. And Imperial law is rather murky on this area. You can't go around blasting whatever you want in space, but the law DOES support armed conflicts between opposing parties. It would probably come down to the local Imperial system commander and whether or not the fighting offers danger to other starships or is becoming a threat to stability of the system. Then he might interfere.

While SDB's could conceivably raid an opponents shipping, it probably won't happen that much, with the odds dropping further with the higher the level of the starports in the system.
phavoc
Cosmic Mongoose
Posts: 4921
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:13 pm

Re: Corsair Question

Postby phavoc » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:06 pm

GypsyComet wrote:Every world in the Imperium is an Imperial member. If a world can project power through the whole system, its SDBs are deputized, as it were, to serve Imperial Law in areas beyond the legal reach of their homeworld. That this is also serving their homeworld as protection from hooligans in the outsystem is a bonus.

This is the only way to make law enforcement work, since the subsector and sector fleet elements can't be everywhere at once. In Imperial space the default Imperial Officer is the Portmaster. Important worlds may have more, and real backwaters (E ports) may not have even that, but the Portmaster or his Security Chief are where you start.
I thought that worlds within the Imperium were not required to be full members, but travel throughout the Imperium essentially required the worlds to obey all laws and to not be a threat to the Imperium? I recall an old Dragon article that had an Imperial fleet in orbit of a balkanized planet that had undergone a war. The fleet couldn't legally order the sides to stop the war, but they could impose a planetary blockade and control what arms and munitions the sides were able to buy, as well as prohibiting mercenaries from taking jobs on the planet. I need to find that article, it was pretty good.

I believe a world's legal jurisdiction ends at 100D. Granted, if you have a armed warship and the other guy doesn't, might gives you lots of rights. But legally a planet can't impose its laws on another if they don't want them. And Imperial law does allow for wars, so long as they follow certain rules. So that would indicate, to me at least, that Imperial law is meant to minimize disruptions to the spacelanes through inter-system warfare.
dragoner
Duck-Billed Mongoose
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:37 pm
Location: Indiana, US

Re: Corsair Question

Postby dragoner » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:07 pm

Exonidas Spaceport? I was just reading that, it is on the Apocrypha II disk.

Actually there were both Imperial Army and Marines, plus two different merc units operating on the planet.
mr31337
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Corsair Question

Postby mr31337 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:22 am

Do people believe war is only permitted by the Imperium within the 100D? I've never seen it written that it has to be restricted, except for no nukes of course, but it makes sense that it would be.
Greylond
Mongoose
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Corsair Question

Postby Greylond » Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:52 am

In the OTU, war is permitted if it doesn't involved Nukes and/or doesn't stop Interstellar Trade.
mr31337
Banded Mongoose
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Corsair Question

Postby mr31337 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:07 am

Greylond wrote:In the OTU, war is permitted if it doesn't involved Nukes and/or doesn't stop Interstellar Trade.
Sure, but is that only within the 100D? ...is my question.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests