Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

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dragoner
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby dragoner » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 pm

For all intensive purposes, 0 lvl's are skill 1 per old trav (cue old discussion of the difference of how skill levels work per different rule sets), but I guess 0 works, whatever floats your boat. I watch the chargen usually occasionaly a character slips through with higher lvl's, but it is an issue of balance within the party, which is of prime importance. Some people have a idea that characters should be 'above average' others that they are 'normal people', how this plays out is of some thought as to how they all work together as a party, barring the 'mary sue' effect; I reward role playing over roll playing, however, so the skill levels are not to be just a play book. YMMV

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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Captain Jonah » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:31 am

The general consensus seems to be that INT should be used to determine the skill limit.

To my mind if you need to work out how to do something you use INT and if you need to remember how to do it you use EDU but that’s just me :wink:

As a question then to those of you who think INT should determine the number of skills you know. What is EDU for in your games if it doesn't relate to what you know?
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby F33D » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:17 am

Captain Jonah wrote: As a question then to those of you who think INT should determine the number of skills you know. What is EDU for in your games if it doesn't relate to what you know?
EDU is what you've learned.. Int measures your total capacity of what you can retain. It isn't infinite storage...

Part of Int is the size of the container. What you put into the container is what you've studied. EDU.

INT measures your capacity to learn. Simple. ;)
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Greylond » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:17 am

Of course, the real question Why limit the skills? I've seen plenty of characters made with 6 terms and 4 or 5 advancements and I don't think they're so bad.
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Faelan Niall » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:08 pm

Greylond wrote:Of course, the real question Why limit the skills? I've seen plenty of characters made with 6 terms and 4 or 5 advancements and I don't think they're so bad.
Likewise. If anything limit terms, once in play advancement is pretty slow and controlled anyway, really don't see the need for a total limit. A limit on how high individual skills can go sure, but that is purely for mechanical reasons. I could care less if a character winds up with a whole bunch of skills at 3.
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Greylond » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:33 pm

Faelan Niall wrote:
If anything limit terms, once in play advancement is pretty slow and controlled anyway, really don't see the need for a total limit. A limit on how high individual skills can go sure, but that is purely for mechanical reasons. I could care less if a character winds up with a whole bunch of skills at 3.
My opinion on it Exactly. Well Said!
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:09 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:The general consensus seems to be that INT should be used to determine the skill limit.

To my mind if you need to work out how to do something you use INT and if you need to remember how to do it you use EDU but that’s just me :wink:

As a question then to those of you who think INT should determine the number of skills you know. What is EDU for in your games if it doesn't relate to what you know?
Well, after having caught up with this thread (should have paid more attention to one I started!), I can see the case for Int+Edu instead of Int x2. :)

(Though, on a side issue, I am thinking about limiting edu when the stats are rolled to 8, any further gains must be by career rolls (not neccessarily Scholar), have always been uncomfortable with the idea that a Int 2 Barbarian could also have an edu of 12.)

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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:13 pm

Greylond wrote:Of course, the real question Why limit the skills? I've seen plenty of characters made with 6 terms and 4 or 5 advancements and I don't think they're so bad.
Normally, yes, no issue with the "typical" character with 4-6 terms service, and around a dozen skill levels.

On my first post I pointed out that this was for a campaign involving some alien races with very long life spans, and I wanted to avoid super hero NPCs or PCs, while trying to keep a degreee of internal consistency.

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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:23 pm

Captain Jonah wrote:Purely by the RAW if you complete 10 terms and get to rank 6 you can have 20+ skill levels if you include one per term, advancements, events and rank skills. What happens if your character is 777777. You start throwing away skills because you are too stupid to remember them even though you have an average intellect and education.
It is harder to learn new skills as you get older but not impossible. Older and wiser except when you have a lower stat which means that someone with a fraction of your life experience knows more than you.
10 terms, 40 years + 18 years = 58 years. Yeah, you point there, could be seen as a weakness in the RAW, but one that doesn't feature when most PCs are in the 4-6 term area. I suppose the counter-balance is the aging table, but I think we sometimes do throw away skills as we age and move through different careers. Simply, we don't have time to maintain all the talents we once had, and though it never feels so mechanistic as a game, that is effectively what we do sometimes.

Thanks for the rest of that post, Captain Jonah, very interesting.

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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Greylond » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:55 pm

Actually, if you want to go the route of "losing skills" what I'd recommend is something like the following;

The Characters gets a penalty for any skill not used in the most recent term. Skills that are used during the last term are those that are listed on the Service Skills, Specialist Skills tables and the Advanced Education if the character qualifies along with any skill gained during Events or Advancement for this term. Skills not used or learned during this term suffer a - 2 DM per term of non-use.

Generally this won't be a problem for skills that a character gets from being in the same career but if a character switches careers or for skills gained during Background(pre-18 years old) then it applies.

This approach will take a bit more paperwork but I'd suggest just keeping track of the DM beside each skill as the character advances a term. If you take care of it during character creation and have it noted on the Character Sheet then during play it shouldn't be much of a problem.
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Faelan Niall » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:06 pm

Of course there is no reason you cannot limit terms, even with a longer lived race. With a long lived race you run into the problem of "when do the youngsters get their shot at fame and fortune". Its called forced obsolescence. Sorry Admiral we realize you are in your prime but we can't make exceptions or our society would collapse. Enjoy being an entrepreneur.
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Egil Skallagrimsson » Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:47 pm

Greylond wrote:Actually, if you want to go the route of "losing skills" what I'd recommend is something like the following;

The Characters gets a penalty for any skill not used in the most recent term. Skills that are used during the last term are those that are listed on the Service Skills, Specialist Skills tables and the Advanced Education if the character qualifies along with any skill gained during Events or Advancement for this term. Skills not used or learned during this term suffer a - 2 DM per term of non-use.

Generally this won't be a problem for skills that a character gets from being in the same career but if a character switches careers or for skills gained during Background(pre-18 years old) then it applies.

This approach will take a bit more paperwork but I'd suggest just keeping track of the DM beside each skill as the character advances a term. If you take care of it during character creation and have it noted on the Character Sheet then during play it shouldn't be much of a problem.
Thanks Greylond, but this looks like a book keeping nightmare, and I cannot see any advantage over the first suggestion. It could also have the effect of penalising characters who have only done a few terms, even two terms, so don't have much in the way of skills, but have swapped carreers, which is not the intention.

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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Infojunky » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:49 pm

Egil Skallagrimsson wrote:
Greylond wrote:Of course, the real question Why limit the skills? I've seen plenty of characters made with 6 terms and 4 or 5 advancements and I don't think they're so bad.
Normally, yes, no issue with the "typical" character with 4-6 terms service, and around a dozen skill levels.

On my first post I pointed out that this was for a campaign involving some alien races with very long life spans, and I wanted to avoid super hero NPCs or PCs, while trying to keep a degreee of internal consistency.
That's easy, just make their terms longer.....

Stat inflation is what I would worry about instead of skills.
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:41 am

Infojunky wrote:Stat inflation is what I would worry about instead of skills.
Hi-stat characters begin to improve their INT and SOC exponentially. You end up with Emperor characters real easy.
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby tanksoldier » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:24 pm

I would advocate the INT + EDU if you want to limit skills and levels.

EDU being the knowledge to which you've been exposed, and INT being your capacity to retain and use that knowledge.

Real world example:

I attended college with a girl with Downs Syndrome. She wasn't as impaired as some, but pretty clearly below the "average" student. She attended class, did the work and eventually earned a bachelor's degree... but her capacity to USE and RETAIN the knowledge was reduced.

In game terms she would have had a high EDU but below average INT. She probably would have had fewer "skill levels" than someone with less exposure to knowledge but more ability to retain and use what they HAD been exposed to.

She probably would have been reasonably able to recall information from a class, "We talked about that in Mr. Peterson's class once" (skill roll using EDU) but her ability to apply that knowledge to a different situation, "We talked about book keeping for restaurants, but now I'm trying to find an accounting error in the books of an auto parts store"" (skill roll using INT) would likely be less.
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby Cryton » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:49 am

I use a throwback to CT for my skill caps. Your character may not have more skill levels, not counting 0 level skills, than the sum of his Int and Edu.

When advancing a skill once your capped, your least used skill is reduced by one (to a minimum of level 0) when you advance a skill.

I cap skill level generation to level 4. after that, no cap.
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Re: Maximum Skill Levels/Maximum Experience

Postby FallingPhoenix » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:44 pm

Another thing you might try is making skills cost more once they reach a certain point (e.g. Skill Level 4 requires two rolls for the same skill, 5 requires 3...)
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