Doomed Crew?

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mr31337
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby mr31337 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:39 am

F33D wrote:
mr31337 wrote: and if that is the case then possibly power for emergency signal GK comms beacon as well.
Emergency beacons and the like would be powered by a nuclear battery. Would last for decades.
Yes, that makes perfect sense. Don't really know why I hadn't considered that.
mr31337
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby mr31337 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:00 am

Lemnoc wrote:I wonder. These OTU ships with their massive tonnage and elegant staterooms and play areas. The conference centers and workout gyms. If a crew had to wall off big sections of a dead ship and, you know, sleep in a room together without artificial gravity and showers, if every system capable of supporting a 400-ton ship were directed instead to support a 10x10 airlock, what then?

Think Das Boot.
At least on Das Boot they had a toilet, I doubt there are many of those in an airlock. :o

We are told all doors are airtight on a starship, which seem to imply the air circulation/supply system is independant for every room. The suggestion in the CRB is that life support systems are related to the staterooms. So I would assume that as long as air is able to come from these areas to the occupied areas of the ship then the crew would get the standard 'life support' duration of air. Food & water would be seperate considerations.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby Lemnoc » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:21 am

mr31337 wrote:We are told all doors are airtight on a starship, which seem to imply the air circulation/supply system is independant for every room. The suggestion in the CRB is that life support systems are related to the staterooms. So I would assume that as long as air is able to come from these areas to the occupied areas of the ship then the crew would get the standard 'life support' duration of air. Food & water would be seperate considerations.
I would add only the caution of as normally engineered to your assumptions. In other words, when everything is sunny things work exactly as you say. In a very serious situation (I would hope!) systems can be rejiggered for lifeboat-style survival. You know, even a Rolls Royce limo has tires to burn for a signal and radiator water to drink... probably not what was originally intended for the occupants!

At any rate, I'd assume a ship would have the wiring and pumps and redundant engineering to accommodate just about any plausible, amazingly creative "Flight of the Phoenix" scramble for survival. And I'd give the PCs at least that much chance for survival... wouldn't kill them per the CRB :wink:
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby mr31337 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:35 am

Lemnoc wrote:
mr31337 wrote:We are told all doors are airtight on a starship, which seem to imply the air circulation/supply system is independant for every room. The suggestion in the CRB is that life support systems are related to the staterooms. So I would assume that as long as air is able to come from these areas to the occupied areas of the ship then the crew would get the standard 'life support' duration of air. Food & water would be seperate considerations.
I would add only the caution of as normally engineered to your assumptions. In other words, when everything is sunny things work exactly as you say. In a very serious situation (I would hope!) systems can be rejiggered for lifeboat-style survival. You know, even a Rolls Royce limo has tires to burn for a signal and radiator water to drink... probably not what was originally intended for the occupants!

At any rate, I'd assume a ship would have the wiring and pumps and redundant engineering to accommodate just about any plausible, amazingly creative "Flight of the Phoenix" scramble for survival. And I'd give the PCs at least that much chance for survival... wouldn't kill them per the CRB :wink:
Yup, as normally engineered is exactly what I meant, or rather what the CRB seems to mean. :)
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby locarno24 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:47 am

As noted, you can assume that 'emergency life support' lasts about two weeks.

'Basic' electrical power can be run of things like a sterling RTG (the nuclear battery F33D mentioned) and provided it's not anything needing the power levels of the main reactor, you can ignore it. It's not particularly powerful but it is inexhaustible in the scale of this game (precisely why they're used to power space probes today). Limited emergency comms, emergency lights, basic warmth, internal doors and (for the sake of simplicity) internal grav plates to about 0.6G fall into this category . How much of the computer systems you can run is for the GM to decide - I'd argue in favour of all of it if you're prepared to switch other things off for the duration.

Things you won't be able to run off that sort of thing - M-Drive, J-Drive, active sensors.

Things that don't just need power - water purifiers and air purifiers will need chemical reagents as well as electricity to work (although they won't need much of the latter). The two weak deadline is quite literally that because that's probably the point the CO2 scrubbers pack in and everybody suffocates.

Important priorities for the crew:
1) Staunch any leaks (power, air, water, radiation) - stay alive long enough to do anything else
2) Make sure you have enough food and water to make it to the air deadline
3) Try to find something nearby you can use for fuel
4) Try to figure out a way to extend the air deadline long enough to make it there on minimal engine power.
5) Fuel up
6) Jump to safety
7) Go to the pub for a very large drink
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby mr31337 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:53 am

Apparently the human body consists of about 10% hydrogen. If things were really bad perhaps you could put bodies into the fuel processors. Might not get much fuel, but could keep your players amused. :mrgreen:
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby mr31337 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:03 pm

locarno24 wrote:Things that don't just need power - water purifiers and air purifiers will need chemical reagents as well as electricity to work (although they won't need much of the latter). The two weak deadline is quite literally that because that's probably the point the CO2 scrubbers pack in and everybody suffocates.
You seem to be suggesting that under normal power clean air is produced by some method other than CO2 scrubbers. I am curious to know what you believe that method to be.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby locarno24 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:12 pm

You seem to be suggesting that under normal power clean air is produced by some method other than CO2 scrubbers. I am curious to know what you believe that method to be.
I don't. I'm just assuming that the 'two weeks life support' must include self-powered scrubbers - i.e. ones not dependent on the main reactor or on outside resupply. I assume this represents the bottom-of-the-barrel reserves of the same system which normally cleans the air (which is part of what you buy with your monthly life support fee).

The only difference - if you want one - is that it may be possible that under power there is some ability to regenerate those reagents, which would want chemical processes like crucible-work and electrolysis not available from emergency power.
Understand that I'm not advocating violence.
I'm just saying that it's highly effective and I strongly recommend using it.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby mr31337 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:14 pm

locarno24 wrote:I'm just assuming that the 'two weeks life support' must include self-powered scrubbers - i.e. ones not dependent on the main reactor or on outside resupply. I assume this represents the bottom-of-the-barrel reserves of the same system which normally cleans the air (which is part of what you buy with your monthly life support fee).

The only difference - if you want one - is that it may be possible that under power there is some ability to regenerate those reagents, which would want chemical processes like crucible-work and electrolysis not available from emergency power.
Yes, there must be some difference, otherwise with or without power the air supply would be for the same duration and yet it isn't(6months v 2weeks). However, I think your suggestions sound very plausible.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby F33D » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:36 pm

mr31337 wrote:You seem to be suggesting that under normal power clean air is produced by some method other than CO2 scrubbers. I am curious to know what you believe that method to be.

At TL's where fusion power is available, scrubbers would not be used as the main method. The separation of C from O2 would be used. For obvious reasons...
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby phavoc » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:56 pm

The rules really don't go into much depth as far as the engineering options go. But many ships today have auxillary generators, and its quite possible that larger ships (500tons or more) can have auxillary power generators (even small nuclear reactors, MHD's, or some other machinery).
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby F33D » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:03 pm

phavoc wrote:The rules really don't go into much depth as far as the engineering options go. But many ships today have auxillary generators, and its quite possible that larger ships (500tons or more) can have auxillary power generators (even small nuclear reactors, MHD's, or some other machinery).

Yes. With current TL 7 having betavoltaics, gammavoltaics won't be more that 1 or 2 TL's away. This would make for highly compact, very high energy, cheap, back up emergency power sources for ships.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby mr31337 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:29 pm

phavoc wrote:The rules really don't go into much depth as far as the engineering options go. But many ships today have auxillary generators, and its quite possible that larger ships (500tons or more) can have auxillary power generators (even small nuclear reactors, MHD's, or some other machinery).
CRB p106 talks about Redundant Systems, which seems to cover the notion of auxillary generators on any size ship.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby mr31337 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:35 pm

F33D wrote:At TL's where fusion power is available, scrubbers would not be used as the main method. The separation of C from O2 would be used. For obvious reasons...
That would better explain the disparity between life support(air) with and without power.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby F33D » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:36 pm

mr31337 wrote:
F33D wrote:At TL's where fusion power is available, scrubbers would not be used as the main method. The separation of C from O2 would be used. For obvious reasons...
That would better explain the disparity between life support(air) with and without power.
That's true. I didn't think of it from that angle before.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby Hopeless » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:35 pm

It's one they designed. 400 tons, took a lot of nice bits and bobs, their mortgage is about 1 million a month if that helps gauge. 50 tons allocated to cargo if memory serves (they keep the details of the ship)
50 tons of cargo space?

What cargo are they carrying?
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby Jak Nazryth » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:32 pm

Stumondo...
This is a perfect time to GM your way out of the situation.
IMTU my players sub-contracted themselves to a Mercenary group in an attempt to hit a crime syndicate way station. (The syndicate had double-crossed the mercenary group, so they were out for revenge)
Basically the crime syndicate had discovered a rogue comet (about 20 km in diameter) in an empty hex in ages past. They converted an old (and stolen) 400 ton fat merchant into an makeshift fuel depot. The fat merchant converted the ice into fuel and refueled the criminal ships so they could sneak through the system.

As the GM, you can invent anything you want. Or you could simply say the players die and roll up other characters. Somehow I think you can GM your way around this.
Here are a couple of options.
Illicit way station as mentioned above.
Long lost space hulk with enough spare parts and remaining fuel for the players to repair their ship... but the space hulk is full of space zombies... or haywire robots which killed the original crew and have been drifting for hundreds of years..
Or you have another ship with another crew in the similar situation... The other ship may have fuel, but no operating jump drive. The two crews must work together to figure out how to best scrap a working ship together and get back to civilization.
One last idea is a pre-jump-tech colony ship drifting through deep space towards a planet in the next closest hex. The colony ship would have been launched so long ago, that the crew in "hypersleep" would have left before their planet discovered jump drive and needed to escape their planet for what ever reason. Your crew could get aboard (and yes you would have to suspend some facts that the colony ship would be moving at 10% the speed of light or there abouts while your players ship would be relatively stationary in comparison) and they could hitch a ride (waking up 500 years later) or find a way to take fuel off of the colony ship, repair theirs, and get out.
Just some ideas
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby dragoner » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:57 pm

Generally a jump in atmosphere is an automatic destruction of the ship and surrounding area, mong may have changed that though I don't see why they would have. Now that being said, that it's already to the point where they have mis-jumped into an empty hex, it seems a perfect time to introduce them to a rogue planet drifting in deep space. Coincidences are irrelevant, maybe roll some dice to think it's random, but fiat is good enough, they are already on the hook. Now savor the moment of their approach to a dark and mysterious planet, desperate for fuel and to repair their ship, what ancient evil could await ... ?
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby F33D » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:04 am

dragoner wrote:Generally a jump in atmosphere is an automatic destruction of the ship and surrounding area, mong may have changed that though
MGT only has distance in diameters for mods. As far as I remember, CT & MT core rules only had distance mods as well.
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Re: Doomed Crew?

Postby dragoner » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:12 am

F33D wrote:
dragoner wrote:Generally a jump in atmosphere is an automatic destruction of the ship and surrounding area, mong may have changed that though
MGT only has distance in diameters for mods. As far as I remember, CT & MT core rules only had distance mods as well.
iirc something somewhere about "jump weapons" that stated certain effects, it seemed due to mass reflection, and how the ancients destroyed planets. However, if the GM has already just gone with the misjump, rather than telling the players that your ship will instantly be destroyed, then they should go with what is done and keep rolling.

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