Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

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Rikki Tikki Traveller
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Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:28 pm

I am working through trying to build the AHL in MGT - ALL of it's variations.

Before I go too far, has anyone done this already?

Obviously some things have to change - The computer, the Spinal Mount etc. Still trying to figure out how to handle that...

I have translated the old HG USP, but I want to double-check my numbers:

I have
1each 5000 ton Spinal Mount (originally PAW, but later upgraded to a Meson Gun) - Have to fudge that since MGT-HG only goes up to 3500 tons.
5 points of Armor (I think I will upgrade it to 6 points of Bonded Superdense...)
2G (Pathetic - if there is room at the end, I might up this a bit for IMTU)
PP-5: Under MGT HG, this really limits the number of screens, so I may have to upgrade the PP to get the listed Screen values from CT HG. I also assume 2 weeks of fuel or is there something in the books that says it has more?
360 Turrets
24 50-ton bays
6 Fighter Squadrons

Can someone more familiar with this ship than I am double-check my numbers, the number of turrets seems strange...
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:41 pm

Never Mind, I found that it is Fighting Ships! :oops:
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:06 pm

Dear Lord what a broken design...

I am seriously considering redoing this design to be more practical.

First, at TL14, the armour should be Bonded Superdense, not Crystaliron. That gives you 6 points of armour for 5% of the ship - MUCH more efficient. I am tempted to give it 12 points of armour, if possible (10% of ship or 6,000 tons)

I would also Up the M-Drive rating to AT LEAST 5, probably 6.

The Power Plant should be increased to 6, allowing more screens to work at the same time, but this is really a minor issue and a "nice to have" not a "must fix".

Reduce the Weapons back to what CT-HG had, so less fighters, less turrets etc. While not strictly necessary, this would be done to free up the tonnage for items below.

4 Weeks is good for the PP fuel though.

Also, what happened to reinforced bulkheads etc? The tonnage gained back by the above changes should be used to provide extras like this to make the ship more robust.

ALSO, why is the published design only 59.995 tons? Couldn't they just add 5 more tons of cargo to make the design right?????
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Jeraa » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:36 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:ALSO, why is the published design only 59.995 tons? Couldn't they just add 5 more tons of cargo to make the design right?????
The design is off by more then that. If you add up all of the listed tonnage, it only comes to 59,570. So its missing 425 tons from that 59,995 its listed as. So its actually 430 tons off from what it should be.

Thats assuming the tonnage is correct for all of the listed components.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:49 pm

Definitely needs a redo.

THEN, I will do the "improved" version.

I love the AHL, it has always been my Traveller version of the Battlestar Galactica.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby SSWarlock » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:51 pm

For those of you who haven't seen it, the late Andrew Boulton did an incredible 3D rendering of the Azhanti High Lightning. In his honor, here is the link.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/traveller3 ... otostream/
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:37 am

I don't think there is a right way or wrong way to design ships for Traveller. But if you are comparing ship design rules from different game versions of Traveller, you'll go nuts. Pick one game system to use for Traveller and stick to that version. Mongoose has more than enough books now that you don't need to look through Classic Traveller books.

If Mongoose did a complete line of Star Trek RPG books, would we be looking through old FASA books for info?
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Easterner » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:23 am

If Mongoose did a complete line of Star Trek RPG books, would we be looking through old FASA books for info?
Your kidding, of course someone would, there are obsessives here.

2G is the canon speed, upgrading makes an AHL into something else not an AHL. It's like saying I'll redesign the speed upward on my S. Dakota, that's nice only you end up with an Iowa, not a SD. In real life ship design is a trade-off: armor, speed, guns, displacement and cost. You can't have it all.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:14 pm

I am not so worried about comparing the CT to MGT versions, I know that cannot be the same.

BUT, the basic design itself needs to be better. 2G just doesn't cut it for a military ship. Also, why wouldn't you use the TL14 Bonded Superdense Armour if it is available. That is a HUGE size savings that can be put to good use in other ways.

But as I said, I LOVE the IDEA of the AHL, it is a design that needs to be fixed that is all.

Having it be a TL14 design makes is much more like the nBSG, a bit obsolete, but still a useful design.

From the first incarnation, I have liked the idea of BSG and the AHL was my Traveller version from the start. Using the TNE setting, I have the Cylons be VIRUS robots/cyborgs and the fugitive fleet is looking for a safe haven supposedly within the Solomani sphere near Terra.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:48 pm

I'm going to make a CG model of the Tigress. I'm looking at the Fighting Ships supplement 3 book now and seeing all the detail it has. Over 3,000 escape pods. I'll have fun figuring out where those things shoot out from. Espescially when a low-berth crew has to unfreeze first and then run to an escape pod during a battle they are losing. And how do people get to sickbay? I don't see a wide enough hallway.

The AHL was easier to model.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby far-trader » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:11 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:...Over 3,000 escape pods. I'll have fun figuring out where those things shoot out from. Espescially when a low-berth crew has to unfreeze first and then run to an escape pod during a battle they are losing.
IF the low berth personnel are included in the escape pod calculations then why wake them at all? Have the escape pod included in the low berth itself. In those final seconds of emergency evac they just auto launch for later recovery.

In MTU the frozen watch is only called out if the ship has lost personnel due to critical injury or "death" and generally those casualties are dropped right into the low berth the replacement came from to freeze the casualty for later treatment. So the replacement crew would be assigned the regular crew escape pod position, which is going to be near (or part of*) their battle station.

* Single (small) manned turrets for example, in MTU, are escape pods in their own right, and the person manning the turret doesn't have to run to an escape pod, in fact a turret "kill" in MTU results in a jettison of the turret to save the crew person manning it. Likewise other discreet function battle stations. Not every "escape pod" in MTU is a single small dedicated lifeboat like those on the Millennium Falcon of SW. Especially not for military ships. That's more a civilian ship and passenger meme. Most "escape pods" in MTU are treated as an added feature total of a designated ship element. For another example, the bridge, with escape pods calculated for the crew with bridge positions may have that number of escape pods around the bridge separate from other elements on a merchant ship. On a military ship it may be that the workstations themselves are the escape pods (much like ejection seats on military aircraft today). Or it may be that collected workstations eject as a single larger "escape pod" with the crew staying together...

...that's my take in a nutshell.
Dan "far-trader" Burns

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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:16 pm

far-trader wrote:
ShawnDriscoll wrote:IF the low berth personnel are included in the escape pod calculations then why wake them at all?
At first, I thought the beds were the low-berths. But the beds are the staterooms. The escape pods are vertical. I want to say they shoot out through the floor. I don't have the book with me right now.

I mean the beds are the low-berths. Each stateroom has a low-berth. So when a crewmember goes to sleep, they're out like a light. I thought the escape pods were low-berths.

Or... the crewmembers have a choice to either sleep in their bed/stateroom, or sleep in their low-berth/escape pod. Hmmm.... Which would I choose? The drawings are so tiny to see clearly enough. I need a magnifier.
Last edited by ShawnDriscoll on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby far-trader » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:24 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
far-trader wrote:IF the low berth personnel are included in the escape pod calculations then why wake them at all?
At first, I thought the beds were the low-berths. But the beds are the staterooms. The escape pods are vertical. I want to say they shoot out through the floor. I don't have the book with me right now.
Well, my comment is in general, not specific to a deckplan, especially one I haven't seen :) And of course I don't think much of most of the published deckplans over the whole of Traveller's history :( Most are crap.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:35 pm

Just remember, according to RAR, only staterooms have Escape Pods.

Barracks, Acceleration Couches and Low Berths are NOT included in the calculation of the number of escape pods.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:44 pm

What is RAR? I found the low births on the Tigress. They are located between the fuel deck and the ammo deck. That seems so dangerous, yet so cool. I was up all last night modeling just the outside shell of the ship. I won't model the decks inside though. :) 52 decks!
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:10 pm

RAR = Rules as Written (sorry, should have been RAW! :oops: )

Damn American Educational System!
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby ShawnDriscoll » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:24 pm

Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:Just remember, according to RAR, only staterooms have Escape Pods.

Barracks, Acceleration Couches and Low Berths are NOT included in the calculation of the number of escape pods.
High Guard might use different rules? Because the staterooms I've been looking at are in the center of the ships where no escape pods can launch from. I did cheat and looked at some other brand of Traveller rules and saw that escape pods are hidden under the floor plates and that 4 people can fit in one. They also say that any Joe Shmoe sitting at his desk is basically sitting above an escape pod that his chair drops into. Just don't click your middle mouse button 3 times in rapid succession.
Last edited by ShawnDriscoll on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby Somebody » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:37 pm

I can see some reasons to go low tech in case of the AHL:

They are not real warships, rather a modern variant on the Deutschland class of WW2 Good strategic mobility and enough punch to kill smaller escorts and defence units. No need for high sublight speeds. Actually being slow Keeps Baron - Admiral M. Oron from integrating the ship in a regular fleet

Low Tech allows many repairs with local neutral yards or even scavenged parts.TL 14 hull material is rare in the border regions. The main reason to go TL 14 is the jump drive. lMTU most other systems would be TL 11-12

In peacetime they are nice to keep systems in - line. Again a job best done by a ship not up to fleet standart in case it changes owners...
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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby lastbesthope » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:18 pm

I think RAR is actually RAW, Rules As Written

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Re: Azhanti High Lightning in MGT

Postby far-trader » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:07 pm

ShawnDriscoll wrote:
Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:Just remember, according to RAR, only staterooms have Escape Pods.

Barracks, Acceleration Couches and Low Berths are NOT included in the calculation of the number of escape pods.
High Guard might use different rules?
Nope.

High Guard pretty clearly states that Escape Pods are tied directly to the staterooms. That you can't have/don't need more than one per stateroom, that you can't have fewer than one per stateroom (either you have an escape pod for EVERY stateroom or you have NO escape pods at all) and that they are in fact located in (adjacent to) each stateroom. All the example ships in High Guard adhere to this rule (as daft as I think it is personally, at least they are consistent :) )

...actually, I didn't look at the deckplans to confirm that they are consistent with this rule.

Personally I think it's self evident that the two are not locked together (having more or less than the number of staterooms) and just silly that they should have to be located in the individual staterooms. Imagine any of the luxury ocean liners being designed with little one man dories in each stateroom, especially the interior ones.

"And in this closet is your dory. Yes sir and madam, this is your personal lifeboat. It is your responsibility to get it to an exterior deck to launch. Have a nice cruise."
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