Traveller TNE?

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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby andreav » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:16 pm

Somebody wrote:Actually there is a lot of stuff Mongoose could do in the OTU
Snippity doh dah

I'd like to see M0 revisited. The setting had some great promise. No stagnant 800lb gorilla surrounded by 500lb gorillas, hot and cold running wars, Imperium light, dark and extra crunchy, scouts actually exploring, boldly going where no one had gone before (or at least for rather a long while), pocket empires to carve out, intrigue and byzantine politics to spare. One of the few settings where the traditional traveller adventure actually makes sense. I like my Imperium small :)
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby Golan2072 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:18 pm

By the way daryen, in your hypothetical ATU, where would be a "hard" frontier for the Imperium to expand to? One of my problems with the canonical OTU is the lack of real frontier for the Imperium, with all the adventure potential such a frontier will have.
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby Rikki Tikki Traveller » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:53 pm

This sounds like the old "Proto Traveller" topic now.

Condense each OTU Sector into a Subsector and you get all of Charted Spaced within 4 of your new Sectors. Now everyone is in everyone else's reach.

I did up some maps a while back just for fun. It turned out really well. Each subsector gets represented by the 2-4 most important worlds, so a lot of the "fluff" worlds can be gotten rid of, they are pretty much ignored by most players anyway. Or you can just move them to secondary worlds within the better known systems.

In this version, the Daryen control 3 star systems and so do the Sword Worlders.
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby daryen » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:56 pm

Golan2072 wrote:By the way daryen, in your hypothetical ATU, where would be a "hard" frontier for the Imperium to expand to? One of my problems with the canonical OTU is the lack of real frontier for the Imperium, with all the adventure potential such a frontier will have.
In the OTU, Charted Space is designed around the Imperium. So, you have the Imperium, then it was surrounded by everything else. Meaning the Imperium had no real "frontier".

In my suggestion, the "center" would be the Spinward Marches, which is a "neutral zone" sitting in the middle of all of the other powers that effectively ring it. Since the whole area would just be nine sectors, and the Imperium is in "Deneb" sector, that means it would have a completely uncharted sector to its trailing. Note that it would be purely uncharted from the point of view of the setting writeup. It is extremely likely the Imperium would have sent expeditions, found populated worlds, maybe even an extremely minor power or two, and whatnot. But that would be completely the purview of the referee. The setting would stop at the trailing border of "Deneb".

So, yes, the Imperium, along with all of the other major powers, would have a frontier. (The minor powers in the middle are, of course, still screwed. Just like in the OTU.)
Rikki Tikki Traveller wrote:In this version, the Daryen control 3 star systems and so do the Sword Worlders.
Uh, let's see ... That would be Darrian, Mire, and, uh, let's go with Ilium for the Darrians. (You could use Zamine instead of Ilium.) The Sword Worlds are easier with Gram, Sacnoth, and Narsil. Then, I assume, Entrope would be coreward and directly in the middle of both. All easily contained in a corner of a subsector. That would work.
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby Golan2072 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:32 am

daryen wrote:In my suggestion, the "center" would be the Spinward Marches, which is a "neutral zone" sitting in the middle of all of the other powers that effectively ring it. Since the whole area would just be nine sectors, and the Imperium is in "Deneb" sector, that means it would have a completely uncharted sector to its trailing. Note that it would be purely uncharted from the point of view of the setting writeup. It is extremely likely the Imperium would have sent expeditions, found populated worlds, maybe even an extremely minor power or two, and whatnot. But that would be completely the purview of the referee. The setting would stop at the trailing border of "Deneb".
I like this; this way, the Marches would be a good setting for a "Great Game" or "Cold War" situation between the various powers. The Darrians and Sword Worlders will serve as a buffer between the Imperium and the K'Kree; the K'Kree will probably focus their aggression at the Aslan but also continually probe the spinward border of the Marches; and so on.

What I am looking for, however, is a variant of this where Foreven is the Imperial (as well as Zhodani, Aslan etc) frontier, so that I could write up about this mini-Imperium setting on my blog with MGT stats, under the Foreven License; and, besides, some of the best Traveller adventures ever are set in Foreven (Chamax Horde!). Maybe move the K'Kree to Deneb, and make the Imperial Marches (Spinward Marches) the heartlands of the Imperium. The Aslan will be in Trojan Reaches (more densely starred than in canon); the Zhos (probably re-interpreted as "greys") in Ziafrplians; the Vargr in Gvurrdon; the Hivers from beyond the Rift; and there will be a reptilian minor power (less than a subsector in size) in either The Beyond or even Foreven. The Imperium will have some holdings on the trailing side of Foreven, and there will be no Avalar Consulate or Mnemosyne Principality - just some Zhos at the coreward part of Foreven. A lot of independent worlds, sanctioned Imperial colonies and even more unsanctioned colonies.

What do you think?
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby daryen » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:11 pm

golan2072 wrote:What I am looking for, however, is a variant of this where Foreven is the Imperial (as well as Zhodani, Aslan etc) frontier, so that I could write up about this mini-Imperium setting on my blog with MGT stats, under the Foreven License; and, besides, some of the best Traveller adventures ever are set in Foreven (Chamax Horde!). Maybe move the K'Kree to Deneb, and make the Imperial Marches (Spinward Marches) the heartlands of the Imperium. The Aslan will be in Trojan Reaches (more densely starred than in canon); the Zhos (probably re-interpreted as "greys") in Ziafrplians; the Vargr in Gvurrdon; the Hivers from beyond the Rift; and there will be a reptilian minor power (less than a subsector in size) in either The Beyond or even Foreven. The Imperium will have some holdings on the trailing side of Foreven, and there will be no Avalar Consulate or Mnemosyne Principality - just some Zhos at the coreward part of Foreven. A lot of independent worlds, sanctioned Imperial colonies and even more unsanctioned colonies.

What do you think?
My only real problem with that is the Imperium is again trapped. I would want to loosen it up some. In that case, I guess I would suggest that the Zhodani/greys be pushed trailing to be directly above Chronor, so that they are split down the Ziaf.../Gvurrdon line. The Imperium is split down the Marches/Deneb Line. The Vargr are pushed slightly trailing, too, so they occupy parts of both Gvurrdon and Windhorn (it is Windhorn, isn't it? I forget). The K'kree are in the rest of Deneb, with some spilling into Windhorn.

Everything in Foreven and Beyond are blown away and made open. (Even the Floriani, who are kept, are reduced to purely their Trojan holdings.) Those two sectors (and farther spinward) become the frontier for the Imperium, Zhodani/greys, and Aslan. It could easily end up with a very "land-rush" feel to it, too, as the three groups fight each other to colonize the area.

I didn't go that route, as I wanted all of the empires to be able to grow contiguously. With this set up, the Imperium is again isolated, and therefore cannot grow contiguously, and must have two parts: the existing one, and whatever can be formed in Foreven/Beyond. That is, quite frankly, my biggest hesitation for using this arrangement. It also breaks up the "melting pot", as the K'kree become somewhat ephemeral, stuck on the outside fringes with no way to get to the party in the Spinward Marches/Foreven.

That all said, it is quite a decent arrangement, and, quite frankly, way more reflective of the arrangement of the major powers in the OTU. So, it is way more faithful of an effort that what I did. I would gladly adventure in it, that's for sure!

(Quite frankly, having the K'kree be pushed aside isn't necessarily a bad thing. Though I do quite like the idea of the Aslan and K'kree with a border, and all that would imply! Especially if the Aslan are fairly small, the K'kree are large, but the Aslan still just look at them as a huge potential food source ...)

[EDIT: Added the quote since I hit the @&#$% page break.]
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby daryen » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:25 pm

BTW, I want to be completely transparent about one thing: I have intentionally left out the Solomani from any of these ideas. The reason is because Earth/Terra is too polarizing and (quite frankly) too limiting. With Earth in the picture, you have to worry about whether they are "good guys" or (like in the OTU) "bad guys". You have to at least pretend to think about real-world astrography. You have to think about a lot of things that touch on very emotional, very important subjects in the setting. But, if you leave Earth out, none of that stuff really matters anymore.

So, where is Earth in all of this? Who knows. Maybe the old, original empire (the ruins of which all of this setting eventually rose from) was a long term result of a long distance colonization effort of human activity from the way distant past. Maybe the Ancients did transport humans from Earth, but did so in the very distant past, but Earth was much farther away. Maybe the shell that was Earth is floating around somewhere. Maybe this is so far in the future (with multiple death/rebirth cycles of interstellar civilization) that Earth is a burnt cinder orbiting an otherwise unremarkable red giant star. Regardless, there is no "Earth" or "Terra" and there are no "Solomani".

(None of this is to say I am correct. This is just to acknowledge that I did intentionally leave the Solomani out, and why I did so.)
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby 2330ADUSA1 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:07 pm

Hey guys here is a different idea...

Since Traveller is a Set of Rules why doesn't Mongoose itself create a Brand New Traveller based Universe setting that uses the Traveller rules?
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby rust » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:20 pm

2330ADUSA1 wrote: Since Traveller is a Set of Rules why doesn't Mongoose itself create a Brand New Traveller based Universe setting that uses the Traveller rules?
Because Marc Miller would hardly permit any major changes to
his original Traveller universe, which would make it impossible
for Mongoose to use any of the elements (species, states, etc.)
of his universe in a different setting.
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby 2330ADUSA1 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:52 pm

Then create a NEW setting from scratch or partner up with Martin J. Dougherty and license his Far Avalon setting and have him greatly expand on THAT as a new setting for Mongoose Pub. You could still crank out all the Core Traveller stuff, but you would have your own Campaign setting as well. I truely think enough people have read his work and stuff to know that he would create a awesome game world.
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby Dunia » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:09 pm

daryen wrote:Heck, remember that it is still an open question as to whether they are even going to try and move the timeline to or through the Fifth Frontier War. If they are unwilling to even move the timeline through that, why would they even consider any of the later settings?
Well technically, Mongoose is jumping through the years as one can see in Alien Book Zhodani and the sword worlds book (what I have discovered this far), where they talk about things that happens in and after the Fifth Frontier War.
This to me, is more aggrevating than freezing the game at 1105 or pushing the timeline forward.

I mean, if you have decided to freeze the timeline, then proofread the books first to make sure that they do not look as if the writers copy & paste info from the GURPS setting that is set in 1120-ish. Such blatant mistakes disrupts the flow of the books and I remember reading the SW book (which is an awesome book in all other aspects) and being confused with what the authour means and what year his book is set in.
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby GamerDude » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:10 am

Dunia wrote:I mean, if you have decided to freeze the timeline, then proofread the books first to make sure that they do not look as if the writers copy & paste info from the GURPS setting that is set in 1120-ish.
they can't just copy and past a bunch of gurps stuff.. 1. it belongs between SJGames and Marc Miller, 2. From day one SJGames, Sean Punch, (and later Marc Miller) said everything gurps is an ATU... doesn't fit into what Mongoose is doing (without some negotiation between publishers)[/quote]I will agree mixing stuff from different points in the time line and having it look like it is all at, say 1105, is a known source for migraines.
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby Nathan Brazil » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:27 am

Wil Mireu wrote:I would like to see a version of the OTU moved further ahead in time. Go past 1248, explore what lies beyond. The CT-era fans have had more than enough material to keep them happy over the year, so they can't really complain about the setting moving forward - the people who do want to see what lies in the future of the setting on the other hand have barely anything official to work from. As for being polarizing, I don't recall many people complaining about 1248 when it came out, because there were other CT-era alternatives available.

In my opinion Traveller needs to stop wallowing in its past and start moving into its future again. That will not happen if MGT continues to rehash CT books, and all indications are that it will not going to happen with T5 either.
I don't mind if they rehash CT as long as they expand on it (would you like a fried egg on top of your hash? Yes, thanks.)

Way back in the introduction of the T4 rule book, some future timeline items were made. Mentioned, but not expanded upon:
The Solomani Expansion (5121 AD to 6500 AD): The struggle of the Solornani worlds (both within and outside the Imperium) as they endeavor to establish a community of worlds.
the Far Far Future
the Expeditions to the Rim
the Heat Death of the Universe
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby Somebody » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:45 am

GamerDude wrote:
Dunia wrote:I mean, if you have decided to freeze the timeline, then proofread the books first to make sure that they do not look as if the writers copy & paste info from the GURPS setting that is set in 1120-ish.
they can't just copy and past a bunch of gurps stuff.. 1. it belongs between SJGames and Marc Miller, 2. From day one SJGames, Sean Punch, (and later Marc Miller) said everything gurps is an ATU... doesn't fit into what Mongoose is doing (without some negotiation between publishers)
I will agree mixing stuff from different points in the time line and having it look like it is all at, say 1105, is a known source for migraines.[/quote]

Not directly GT but "Sector Fleet" is an expanded version of "Grand Fleet" (same author, no legal problems) that was at least written with GT as the "prime target system". And in some chapters you can easily see where Mongoose forgot to file of the serial numbers (The whole part about jumps and operations is GT/TNE/Mega/T20 not Mongoose in a lot of details)
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Re: Traveller TNE?

Postby Wil Mireu » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:13 am

Nathan Brazil wrote:the Far Far Future
the Expeditions to the Rim
the Heat Death of the Universe
I'm not sure I'd be so excited by mere mentions of settings. "The Heat Death of The Universe" sounds utterly ridiculous as an RPG setting anyway. What would that be - 'high adventure as you play diffuse sentient gas clouds that span lightyears, herding the last remaining subatomic particles into the ergospheres of the supermassive black holes that remain after all matter has decayed, trying to avoid the information density cap of the universe'? Doesn't really sound that thrilling to me ;)

(Stepen Baxter's "Deep Future" is a good read about that, BTW. It really wouldn't work as an RPG setting though)

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